Interview with Ana C. Carrasco

              Special Collections
Public Spaces in Miami: An Oral History Project
Interview with Ana Carrasco
Miami, Florida, July 7th, 1999
Intervew IPH-0035
Interviewed by Aldo Regalado
Recorded by Aldo Regalado
Summary: This interview with Ana C. Carrasco was conducted in July 1999. Ms. Carrasco works for the Youth Center, Centro Mater in Little Havana and provides insights into public spaces as they relate to children. Ms. Carrasco’s family migrated from Cuba to Puerto Rico before settling in Miami. She talks about parks and beaches in Puerto Rico and their connection to notions of class, race, gender, and age. She then speaks of similar issues in relation to parks like Jose Martí and other Little Havana locations.
This interview forms part of the Institute for Public History (IPH) Oral History Collection, directed by Professor Greg Bush from the History Department and curated by the University of Miami Libraries Special Collections.
Copyright to this interview lies with the University of Miami. The interview recordings or transcript may not be reproduced, retransmitted, published, distributed, or broadcast without the permission of the Special Collections. For information about obtaining copies or to request permission to publish any part of this interview, please contact Special Collections at asc@miami.edu.
1300 Memorial Drive, Coral Gables, FL 33124-0320 * 305-284-3580 * 305-284-4901 fax Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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Aldo Regalado: This is Aldo Regalado conducting an interview with Ms. Ana Christina Carrasco at her Centro Mater office in Little Havana. The date is July 7, 1999, and we are beginning the interview at 10:58. The topics of discussion will include Ms. Carrasco’s experiences in Little Havana as well as her experiences growing up in Puerto Rico, and also as these experiences relate to public space issues. [unidentified noise] So we can do this in English? Is that—OK, great. Well, so I guess let me start asking you some questions about, first just your childhood and growing up in Puerto Rico and then later on we’ll move into, you know, experiences in Miami. First things first, though, what’s your date of birth and where were you born?
Ana Carrasco: I was born in San Jose, Puerto Rico, October 16, 1964. My parents migrated from Cuba in late ‘59, and then they transferred to Puerto Rico because of economic issues and language and what-not.
AR: And, what did your parents do for a living when they came from Puerto Rico?
AC: My parents, my father was a CPA, and he could work as a CPA. And he actually started immediately working. And my mother worked as a secretary in an American firm. Whatever Trust Company, I remember.
AR: And it’s curious you mention that they left Puerto Rico because of language issues and because of financial issues. Could you elaborate on that?
AC: Well, my mother grew up in Cuba in a German school, so she was fully bilingual. But my father comes from a very Spanish background. The English was a no-no. That family always wanted to return to Spain and English was a no-no. So he was not fluent in English. And then, they thought that being in Puerto Rico, the main language was Spanish, they could have more opportunities working there, staying here, not getting as much salary, doing something else but accounting.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: OK, so it was, English here was just a--?
AC: A must.
AR: A barrier.
AC: Yes, a barrier, to get a decent job.
AR: Even, it’s curious, because you hear a lot that in Miami you could get around with just Spanish. But I guess that was--.
AC: Not in the late fifties.
AR: Not in the late fifties.
AC: Nowadays, you have to ask if you speak English. But then, that the population here was mostly Americans, you had to speak the language in order to get a decent job.
AR: OK. So how would you describe your childhood? Growing up, your experiences, yeah, what was that like?
AC: Well, coming from a migrant family, not being Puerto Ricans, even though they had decent jobs, it was very, very frustrating because you left your family, your roots, your houses. So my family was very, very poor at that time. Not poor that you were missing the basics, but poor in the sense that, having been raised in wealth and then living in a two-bedroom apartment was a big change. Not for me, because I didn’t know their way of living, but for them it was a very big change. So, our weekends were just going to a park, or going to the beach, or things that didn’t cost money. I remember and I have photographs of parks and that was our main entertainment. [laughing]
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July 7, 1999
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AR: [laughing]
AC: We went to the parks on the weekend.
AR: Well, that’s great, actually, and those photos are something we might want to reproduce later on if you’d be willing.
AC: Sure.
AR: But, OK, could you—actually that’d be great—could you just list the parks maybe that you went to primarily and then we can go through them sequentially and you could give me an impression of what those places were like and what happened there?
AC: I remember in the metropolitan area there’s one big park. The Muñoz Marine Park, very close to the old San Juan section. And I don’t remember any other park that we visited but beaches. [door opens and shuts in background] And then, when I was in college, not college, but just finishing high school, there was a huge construction of Central Park, el Parque Central, where people used to go to play soccer, aerobics, to run after work. And then another park that I can’t figure how they managed to build, very, very close to the bank area. And I used to go there because I was taking photograph classes and it used to have beautiful scenery, until the ducks saw me as a threat. [laughing] And I was like, this is not for me.
AR: So it was now, you said the ducks now?
AC: The ducks. It was full of ducks because it had little lakes all around the park. For me it was a beautiful scenery, but I think the animals saw me as an intruder.
AR: [laughing]
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July 7, 1999
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AC: So I ended up not visiting that park anymore because I was attacked. [laughing] On numerous occasions.
AR: [laughing] Really. And is this a problem, this was a recurring problem with this park? Was it that the park wasn’t maintained, or was it just--?
AC: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I was getting too close--.
AR: To close.
AC: To them. No, it was a beautiful park. It had, what do you call, eso carríto que se van por allí?
AR: Like a skyway type of, a sky, or a trolley?
AC: No.
AR: Not a trolley. A cable car, or a--?
AC: I don’t know how you call those.
AR: Were they multiple people, multiple person things, or--?
AC: Well no, they had seats. It’s sat ten or twelve people.
AR: Right.
AC: And you go through the park without having to walk.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: Right. So that’s like a cable car, I guess. I guess, yeah. Interesting. OK, so, yeah, if you could describe in detail the types of things you did? We can take them one by one. Let’s go to Muñoz Marine Park, was that it? Yeah, if you could just describe what--?
AC: I remember as a little child they had playground stations, los famosos columpios cubanos. They had greenhouses, full of orchids and other plants that the city used to take care of. Dominos, which they were called back then, instead of dominos, here dominos? And they had like a schedule. Whatever group, you had to schedule your play. Very old people keep on reminiscing their good old ages. Um--.
AR: What did your, you went there with your family primarily?
AC: Yes.
AR: And what did you guys do there? What did you, a day at the park would be--?
AC: Picnics.
AR: Picnics? Did you--?
AC: That was the most un-expensive, I think, way of entertaining your little children without having to pay for something that they couldn’t afford because they [had] were just arrived.
AR: Yeah. Did you, when you were there, did you encounter other people at the park, or was it basically just you and your family as a unit?
AC: I don’t remember. People, I don’t remember other people.
AR: Yeah. [telephone rings] Not playing with other kids, or--. Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: No.
AR: If you need to take that we can pause, it’s up to you. But yeah, if, not playing with other kids, [telephone rings] or anything like that, it’s just you and your parents. [telephone rings] How long did you stay at the park?
AC: I would stay all afternoon.
AR: All afternoon?
AC: [telephone rings] I remember that we were so tired, that we would just go home, take a bath, and go to sleep. We were very little though.
AR: How many of you, did you have siblings?
AC: Yes. I have a brother, two years younger than me. And it was my mother, my father, my two grandfathers [laughing] that came from Cuba too, my aunt, and us two. And I have a whole bunch of pictures. But I can’t remember other people or other children.
AR: Yeah, or do--?
AC: I remember old people playing dominos.
AR: Do you remember what type of things they would, they would talk about or--?
AC: I remember that there were people that were not raised in the metropolitan area because they talked about their own cities or own towns and how it was very different from living in the city. No alcohol, though. No alcohol. No wives.
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July 7, 1999
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AR: No wives?
AC: No, it was just the men.
AR: And so, what other types of people do you remember from the parks? Not necessarily hanging out with them, but just seeing there?
AC: The people that took care of the greenhouses. I assume there must have been plenty of children it’s just that I can’t recall.
AR: Yeah. Do you remember any--?
AC: Then growing up in Central Park, plenty of people. Old, young, working, non-working, children, little children, everybody. And different cultures.
AR: Like what, if you could elaborate on that? [unidentified noise]
AC: Well, not only Puerto Ricans did migration, like here. We had Colombians, we had plenty of people from Spain. The Spanish club, we practiced soccer at Central Park. A whole bunch of people from work, young people, from work gathered at five, five-thirty.
AR: Work from just a specific location, or just work from around the city?
AC: From the metropolitan area.
AR: Yeah.
AC: Because it was very close to Old San Juan, where a whole bunch of peopled worked. They gathered there for aerobics and then to, for track and field. And they also practiced soccer, like two, three times a week. Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: So were these events, events that were sponsored by the park, or were they independently organized by--?
AC: Well, the track and field and the aerobics [were] was sponsored by the park, no charge. They had tennis courts and of course you had to schedule, and then you had to pay a small fee to reserve a court. Soccer you could use the soccer courts at no charge. As a matter of fact, the association from Spanish club used to reserve the fields for us to practice.
AR: And at this, at Central Park, or el Parque Central, was it different there in terms of the way--? I mean, here you would, would you go primarily with your family or was this something that you would go to on your own?
AC: It was a family affair--.
AR: Oh, so this was—
AC: If I had to practice, everybody would go. It’s like Qué Pasa USA, that if somebody gets sick, everybody goes to the doctor’s office. [laughing] It was a family affair. And many people, many people that used to jog and run, used to take their car seats, their strollers, and take the children. It was every age. These I can remember better because I was, like, what, twelve, thirteen.
AR: Right. At this stage, do you remember interacting with other people as well?
AC: Jam-packed.
AR: Jam-packed?
AC: Jam-packed. Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: So you--?
AC: We used to get there early for the soccer practice, and we used to get into the aerobic class, and then jog through the court, and then go to a practice. And it was full of people, full of other children. As a matter of fact, other clubs, the Colombian club, and the Lebanese club, that were also practicing soccer. We sort of mingled because it was a family affair.
AR: Right, right.
AC: [laughing] My mother used to make many, many friends because she had to sit there and, you know, chaperone.
AR: [laughing] So, you mentioned different clubs, Colombian, Lebanese. Were, or did these clubs tend to--?
AC: We all played there.
AR: Separate themselves ethnically, or--?
AC: No.
AR: No.
AC: We knew each other because we played against each other. Well, we would have mingled with each other.
AR: Right.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: No. Especially, I don’t know why. I grew up in this Spanish club, and they tend to think of their ethnicity as being better than others. And you wouldn’t mingle with Colombians, are you kidding, hmph! [Eso era…?]. [laughing] And Lebanese? Unh-unh. Even Mexicans.
AR: How were the Lebanese seen?
AC: They’re very clannish. They don’t mingle with anybody else. And they speak their own language, so nobody will understand what they’re saying.
AR: And how are the Mexicans perceived by the Spanish, by the Spanish club?
AC: They were better off with the Mexicans but still wouldn’t mingle with the Mexicans. It’s--.
AR: It’s the way it is.
AC: It’s a culture.
AR: And when you say Spanish, you mean Spanish as Español, not Puerto Rican, not Cuban. Spanish.
AC: No, no, no, no. Spanish.
AR: Spanish.
AC: Spanish.
AR: Did you ever--?
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: Even though I was a third generation because, well second generation, because my father born up in Spain but he grew up in Cuba and then we were raised in Puerto Rico, we were second generation, but they still consider them, our generation being, like, Spanish. Not even Cubans because my parents, they didn’t have anything but they were raised in Cuba. So it was like, you don’t mingle with anybody else.
AR: Was there also, were there also Puerto Ricans?
AC: In the club. Yes. No, no, no, in the Spanish club.
AR: In the Spanish club there were also Puerto Ricans?
AC: Because either you were second generation or third generation, but they tend to mingle with the Spanish.
AR: Was there a Cuban club?
AC: There was a Cuban club but they didn’t play soccer.
AR: Huh? What did they do?
AC: Cubans play baseball.
AR: Baseball. Yeah, of course, that makes sense. [laughing] And so, there was not much interaction with the Cuban club then, they were almost separate?
AC: No.
AR: They were separate.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: It’s a whole different ball game.
AR: Here’s something that I’m curious about because, you know, here in the States it’s such a big issue, and that’s African Americans, people of African descent in Puerto Rico. Did they fit into the scheme at all in terms of the different clubs? Did they use the parks as well? What’s the situation in terms of race, not necessarily in terms of race, but--?
AC: Puerto Ricans don’t, I don’t think they’re racist. There’s such a mix in Puerto Rico, like the Hispanics and the Indians and the Africans that were brought to the islands to work, that there’s a saying in Spanish, mainly in Puerto Rico [“si no tiene de congo, tiene de canabarí”]. So, you have in your blood Spanish blood, and you have Indian blood, and you have African blood. So the Puerto Ricans are not known as racists, as for example the Cubans tend to be more racist. In Puerto Rico, you can have a brother that’s very light skinned color, light hair, and you can have another that seems like a café con leche, that’s a mixture. And you can have another brother or very close relative that’s very dark skinned color. And they don’t seem to [care] matter, that gama. Cubans do tend to be more, what would you call it--?
AR: I don’t know.
AC: Not racist but--.
AR: Conscious of--.
AC: Concerned about colors.
AR: How would you, you know, if you have Puerto Ricans kind of not being so conscious and Cubans being more conscious, how would you rate Americans, just out of curiosity? Just stepping out of, for a moment, in the spectrum of racism or consciousness of race?
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: Well, I, I--.
AR: Do you think Americans are any more racist than Cubans, or would you say--?
AC: I don’t know. My experiences in Puerto Rico and then here—and the Americans in south Florida, I think they’re so used to having Hispanics that [pause] I don’t perceive them as being racist as if I would have lived in another state. I would say that, for example, Georgia, there they’re very, very racist. So I don’t have a point of comparison.
AR: And, anyway, that was just an aside, I was just curious on that. But in terms of, OK, so race didn’t matter so much in Puerto Rico and these parks--.
AC: No.
AR: So would there be people of darker skin in the Spanish club, for instance?
AC: Yes.
AR: In the Spanish club, interesting. And they considered themselves Spanish?
AC: I grew up in a Catholic school where only wealthy Puerto Ricans or sort of wealthy Cubans send their children. Because it’s not like here that everybody goes to a public school and it’s OK, and it’s a good school. Back there, if you have a certain economic position, you don’t send your children to public school because very low income, not only economic but social class, goes to public school. And there were people of all colors. If you were intelligent, and you could survive in that plan, no matter what color.
AR: And, that’s another issue, the issue of class then. How class conscious was the society that you grew up in, in Puerto Rico? Was there—you mentioned your parents were poorer Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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because they had just come—was there any, ever any discrimination against your parents in terms of, based on money, on class? Do you remember any of that?
AC: No.
AR: You don’t have any recollections of that?
AC: No, I do. I do.
AR: Oh, you do?
AC: I do. I remember when I was very, very little that they had no friends whatsoever because they were just arrived. They had just arrived from Cuba. And I remember my mother mentioning, we just got here and our neighbors were offering soup because they knew my mother was pregnant and she knew nobody.
AR: So then--.
AC: And it didn’t matter who she was, or who we were, they were offering café, and goods, and chicken soup, and you need to rest, we’ll take care of you while your husband goes to find a job, and we’ll help him. And I remember. I have those recollections of them talking about how they were helped by people that they didn’t know at that time.
AR: That’s great. That’s great.
AC: They were able to put their own businesses, like, in two or three years because people moved and I know who can help you, and I know where you can go and work as a CPA, instead of working at a cafeteria or cleaning offices. People were very, very friendly. As of here, I grew up in Puerto Rico, so when I came here and I completed my Bachelor’s, and I wanted to stay for my Master’s…And Cubans here are very clannish, very, very clannish. If Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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you don’t belong to the big five, you don’t belong to the [laughs] big and wealthy here, and you’re nobody. As compared to Puerto Ricans who are so, so nice and so friendly, it was a clash. That’s why my parents don’t want to come and live in Miami. They said, no way. Now we feel that home is Puerto Rico. They don’t want to come here.
AR: Well, just to wrap up, for now anyway, parts on Puerto Rico, you’ve talked a lot about the wonderful experiences you had there. Do you remember any negativity at these--?
AC: I also remember the Christmas parties for my father’s business, he used to invite every single employee. And there were a whole bunch of parks, but outside the metropolitan area. Mostly on hills, very far away from, en el campo. And they had little shacks, and they took music, and trios and it was a whole day affair, for Christmas.
AR: And who would, they would go, why would they go out of the metropolitan area?
AC: I don’t know.
AR: No?
AC: Era un costumbre.
AR: [laughing].
AC: And for Christmas, you would go out of the capital, and you would go to a park.
AR: [unidentified noise] Was this a custom amongst everybody? Was it something that everybody did?
AC: Business owners.
AR: Business owners that did it? Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: I don’t know why.
AR: And would it be, could you describe, did you ever go to these parties?
AC: Yes.
AR: What were they like? What was the, el ambiente?
AC: They were like fiesta [ jiuares?]. I don’t know, cultural music for Christmas, la tuna, I don’t know, how do you say that in English? Do you know what tunas are?
AR: No, no I don’t.
AC: Students from Spain that have, como un coro. Have you ever seen la tuna?
AR: I’ve never seen that. I can’t say I’ve ever seen that.
AC: The participants are called tunos. And they come from different universities in Spain to entertain people with Christmas song.
AR: Interesting. What type of music was it? Was it, uh--?
AC: Well, it’s mainly Christmas songs and Catholic songs--.
AR: Catholic songs? Like church music, that sort of thing?
AC: About the Virgin, yeah. They were beautiful.
AR: Yeah. Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AC: And you used to [combine] contract those tunas or trios with cultural oriented music, and you would entertain the whole day. All your--.
AR: When you say cultural oriented, do you mean music from Puerto Rico, from the campo, from--?
AC: Exactly. La plena, la rumba, cultural music with Christmas themes.
AR: And who participated in the parties? Was it just the people--?
AC: It’s a family affair.
AR: So a family affair.
AC: The employees, and their families, and their relatives. It was hundreds of people.
AR: Wow, wow.
AC: With a big lechón and food for everybody. And they looked forward to Christmas, because its drinks, rum con Coca-Cola, and then music, and the food. That I remember too.
AR: That’s great.
AC: There was a rain forest that almost [laughing] everybody knows Puerto Rico about. It’s El Yunque.
AR: El Yunque, sure.
AC: We had once one of the Christmas parties there. You rent a huge shack. Like here, just there’s no mountains here. [laughing] And it was a family affair. Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: What do you think that these parks, that you took away from these parks? What do you think these parks, how do you think these parks and these experiences in these parks affected you, positively, obviously positively? You haven’t mentioned anything negative.
AC: Well, it was the only vehicle to have quality family time, because when I was little there was no money for anything else, and we had a great time. And it was the only place that I think my parents could relax [telephone rings] from a very stressful week being migrants with their children, [telephone rings] trying to raise them in a different country with no means to do [telephone rings] otherwise. And then when they could, they’d prepare these fiestas for the employees, and everybody was the same. It wasn’t, my boss, or my supervisor, everybody was the same. And I think that it gives not only family, but other people a chance to interact.
AR: We talked about parks. What about beaches? You mentioned that you went to beaches a lot with your family, too. What was that like?
AC: That was peers. Not family affairs but you—I remember when I had the chance to go with, to school, and then when you’re a teenager, that’s a hang-out place.
AR: OK.
AC: The beach. [telephone rings]
AR: So, how were your experiences different there? [telephone rings] I mean, what did you guys, what did you do with your peers at the beach? [telephone rings] What would a day at the beach be like and could you describe that? [telephone rings]
AC: I don’t know if you have it here, but the beach was full of catamarani.
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July 7, 1999
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AR: Catamarans. Well, I don’t know if that’s the same thing. A catamaran--.
AC: Sailboats.
AR: Yeah, sailboats. A two--.
AC: I don’t know how you call that--.
AR: They’re catamarans.
AC: Catamarans.
AR: And so you used to go out on the catamarans. Did you, um—you mentioned the parks, the divisions between, like, different groups of people. Was it the same sort of divisions of people at the beaches? Did you--?
AC: Same thing. The Cubans mingle with the clan or wealthy Puerto Ricans.
AR: Right.
AC: And the Spanish used to mingle with everybody else. But Lebanese. [laughing]
AR: [laughing] Right, right. So, um--.
AC: Of course, there were beaches that nobody would go to because [pause] your parents, they used to tell me, that part of the beach goes people that are no good--.
AR: Disreputable.
AC: Low life people, disruptive. And you wouldn’t go to that side, but--.
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July 7, 1999
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AR: What type of people would those be? Those disreputable types?
AC: Low economic sector. That it’s not because of the money but because of their attitude that was kind of disruptive, more than their economic background.
AR: What type of activity would these people do, or would you hear about these people doing?
AC: Drinking.
AR: Drinking.
AC: Very aggressive--.
AR: Aggressive.
AR: When they used to drink. Very loud. Salsa, for example. That type of music when I was growing up, here everybody loves salsa, everybody dances to that rhythm. When I used to grow up in Puerto Rico, salsa was something that was not [pause] socially correct.
AR: Right.
AC: It was like a low life dance. You would dance to every other rhythm but salsa. That was low life entertainment. And I never learned how to dance to that rhythm till I came here that it was socially accepted. And I said, well I don’t know, but people here, you know, [laughing], it’s not a class matter.
AR: And were there ever peers of yours who would--?
AC: Cross the boundaries? Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: Cross the boundaries?
AC: Oh yes.
AR: Yeah.
AC: Yes. They’re revolutionaries. I don’t know. [laughing] I don’t understand why, but I like it and I would dance to whatever music I liked then. I was kind of formal when I was growing up.
AR: [laughing] So you wouldn’t cross the boundaries. Would a lot of your peers cross the boundaries, or not many, the fringe? [pause] Were drugs a big problem at that time when you were growing up?
AC: I don’t think so. Not in my school. I would assume that there were drugs, like, in every other time and every other school but I, my peers didn’t use drugs.
AR: You didn’t encounter that?
AC: No. [pause] I had never seen people using drugs until I came here to the university. My roommate used to do it as a common practice. And say well, I don’t care what you do, it’s OK with me, but I’m not going to do it. In order to be part of a group I never said anything but, it wasn’t my interest. But it was very common, very, very common. Not coke, but marijuana.
AR: Marijuana, yeah.
AC: It was very, very common.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: You mentioned drinking, loudness, salsa, but also potentially violence from these marginal groups. Do ever remember encountering violence personally?
AC: I remember an episode that I will never, ever, ever forget. And we were coming from a family reunion, like eleven, twelve, or maybe it was later, but I thought that it was very, very late for me because I was very little. And we were waiting for the red light to turn green. And the car right in front of my father’s was waiting for the other car to continue moving. And he wanted to move and, I don’t know if--.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A
START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B
AR: This is Aldo Regalado continuing the interview with Ana Christina Carrasco at her Little Havana office, Centro Mater. The time is 11:30 and it’s July 7, 1999. Did I get your, did I say it right?
AC: Carrasco. [laughing]
AR: Good, OK. [laughing]
AC: [laughing] I thought you were going to say Rodriguez was about to crack up!
AR: [laughing] No, no, no. So anyway, you were saying, continuing the story--.
AC: Well, that man pulled over, with a gun in his hand, and he shot the other man.
AR: And you witnessed it?
AC: Yes. And I remembered it clearly. [pause] Just for honking the horn, because he wouldn’t move.
Ana Carrasco
July 7, 1999
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AR: And was it, do you, how old were you when that happened?
AC: I don’t remember but I was very little, like, six or seven.
AR: Wow.
AC: I remember my father’s car. I remember the street light. I remember every single thing. As a matter of fact, when we went over a couple of weeks ago, I took my husband because we were passing by [sound of jet in background] and I recalled that story, and he couldn’t believe it. And that, I think that has happened throughout times. Violent people, when they get drunk, you don’t know what they’re going to do.
AR: So that’s the type of person that your parents would be afraid of, and worried about on the beaches, and stuff like that?
AC: They wouldn’t worry about color, but they would worry about those low-life, disruptive people and they associated drinks with salsa, being disruptive. And we wouldn’t mingle.
AR: That was a problem with beaches. Was it a problem with parks? Were there parks that were, that had those elements?
AC: No, I don’t remember--. Of course, people used to drink, especially at those Christmas parties, but nobody would get violent or drunk. Even though Puerto Ricans tend to, from Thursday on it’s, Thursday, pre-social Friday, and then social Friday, and they, I think they drink more than what—I don’t know. It was my assumption that, I don’t know. People drink more there. And they do drink more. I don’t know, here, with the happy hours, maybe people drink here, too. But, I don’t know, they drink a lot. I don’t know why. And it has surpassed social class. Everybody drinks now.
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AR: So that’s a, you’d say that’s gotten worse over time, or more prevalent, I should say, over time? It’s not, when you were growing up, it wasn’t so much; I guess that’s the impression that I’m getting.
AC: Or my impression.
AR: Let me ask you about other public spaces in Puerto Rico before we move on, and we may come back to some of this later. Museums, do you remember going to museums as a kid?
AC: The Museum of Art in Poncé, because it was a field trip. Poncé was two and a half hours from where we lived. So, we tend to go and have, like, the left wing and then the right wing. And it had two floors over, it has two floors, and we were little so [telephone rings] we took it by sections. And it was a big affair [telephone rings], because it was a very, very nice museum. But other than that, well the Pablo Cassals [telephone rings] Museum in San Juan. [telephone rings]
AR: My mom studied with Pablo Cassals.
AC: Verdad?
AR: Pablo Cassals Museum, and the first one was?
AC: The Museum of Arts in Poncé.
AR: Did you, when you went to these, did you go with your family again, or was it a school event?
AC: School and family.
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AR: School and family.
AC: Yes.
AR: And, well let’s take them one at a time again--. [unidentified noise]
AC: But, for example, children here are not exposed to comedies, and to, I don’t know how you would call it in English, but it’s called in Spanish, tertullias. Every Hispanic book that would come up, [telephone rings] the publishers would do, like, a meeting to discuss a book that was about to come out [telephone rings], and I would read everything that came out. Not only Puerto Rican literature, but Hispanic literature. There’s children here that are not exposed to those types of events. And it was a family affair. I would read tons of books.
AR: And this was something that you were exposed to at the Museum of Art [telephone rings] Museo de Bellas Artes, or was this--?
AC: Museo de Bellas Artes in San Juan.
AR: Sure, we’ll go ahead and pause. [recorder is turned off and on] OK, so that was at Museo de Bellas Artes in San Juan you said, where you got this exposure to theater and--.
AC: They had plays for little children, for adolescents, for every single type of population.
AR: And was it free?
AC: No.
AR: No, and so you had to pay for it. Was it very expensive to go there, or was it, do you remember?
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AC: I don’t know. We went back two weeks ago and we went to see two comedies in Bellas Artes and the most expensive ticket was, like, twenty dollars. So I wouldn’t say it’s expensive.
AR: Right.
AC: Compared to here, for a rinky-dinky thing that would cost you hundreds.
AR: OK, great. So, you did this with your family? Would you say that going to this museum was something that everybody did?
AC: I think that it’s, that families are more oriented, not only to family gatherings, but to cultural arts, to education. It’s a family thing. Children growing up here have never been to a museum. Well, my children maybe, but it’s not the common practice. You go to the malls. And you shop, and you buy things. Family affairs here are going to a mall to buy things.
AR: Why do you think that is?
AC: It’s, um, economía de consumo. All you think of, rewarding yourself, is to buy things.
AR: So you think even if there were museums, or plenty of museums--.
AC: I would say that it’s a matter of educating people. Or maybe, I don’t know, they were not as exposed to it as, growing up. They don’t teach their children that it’s a very nice outing to go to a museum to learn something, to go to a park to spend quality time together.
AR: Do you find that’s the case in the Hispanic community here as well? Or is that--?
AC: I’ve been taking my children to the Museum of Science in Broward and I’ve noticed that the majority of the population that attends those museums are Americans. Ana Carrasco
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AR: Are Americans?
AC: I don’t see Hispanics. As a matter of fact, my children speak in Spanish to other children and nobody speaks Spanish. The majority of the parents taking their children to the Museum of Science and the Imax that recently opened here in Miami are Americans. The Butterfly World and other science museums in Coral Springs, those are our outings. When you have children, you have to plan accordingly. And my outings, it’s not going to the mall to buy things. I was not raised like that. So, we really enjoy going to a park. As a matter of fact, my brother has children, and we have three children, and our outings, especially on Sundays, it’s a family affair.
AR: Well, let’s talk about parks then here in Miami. How do you see them as similar or different to the parks that you had in Puerto Rico, that you frequented in Puerto Rico as a child? First, which parks do you go to here with your children?
AC: We’ve been going to Tropical Park and the Dante Fassell Park that it’s, I don’t know how you get there, but it’s, you take Old Cutler Road all the way down and you, that’s a very nice park to take your children.
AR: Yeah. Why is it a good place for children? I mean what, you know, if you could just describe it?
AC: Because the people that go there are families wanting to have a good time. They take their bikes. They do their picnics. They spend the day in a family affair.
AR: Does the park provide activities like they did in Puerto Rico or something like that?
AC: No.
AR: No.
AC: No. Ana Carrasco
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AR: So you basically go there and make your own... Could you describe the park features, in terms of, you know--?
AC: Well, for example, the Tropical Park, we have a, we take our bicycles. There’s a bicycle track. And, there’s a playground for the little ones, because I have a five year old and an eight year old that love to go to the playground. There’s a huge lake that we take the bread that’s old on Saturdays and Sundays and we feed the ducks. And we make a, I know that many families, or it’s a, business related parties, they rent shacks and they have whole bunch of people to celebrate either a birthday or a business affair, but it’s mostly families, either bicycling or having a picnic.
AR: So, would you consider, do you consider parks here to be, at least the ones you frequent, safe places in general?
AC: Well, it depends on the area. I wouldn’t come here--.
AR: To, uh?
AC: At night, or during the weekends.
AR: Yeah. Your specific, what would be your concerns in terms of doing that, coming--?
AC: Here, even though the city fenced this park, I don’t--.
AR: That would be, that’s Riverside.
AC: That’s Jose Marti.
AR: That’s, I’m sorry, Jose Marti Park. Yeah. Ana Carrasco
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AC: Even though it’s fenced, and they have security, drug users use the park at night. Sundown, not even night, and weekends. I don’t know why. Homosexuals that apparently don’t have another place to have sex, they have sex in the park. So it’s not kosher to bring the children. You can find needles. I have to send a supervisor every single morning to inspect the playground, because you can find needles in the sandbox, and that’s a liability.
AR: Yeah.
AC: Now there’s less of a problem now that it’s fenced, but still you need to check.
AR: Yeah. How about gang activity? Is that a problem in this area?
AC: I know that there’s [are] gangs in the area, because the police station, the net office, it’s a block from the Miami River Inn, and they patrol the area. And I know that there’s gang activity because they say it [jet noise in background], but not because we have been vandalized or, and you could see strange teens and youth, but I cannot really tell you that they’ve been vandalizing or there’s been drug dealings because it’s not my experience. I know of their existence because of their advice. We have a teen outreach program and we meet, coaches meet at night from six to ten. And the youth in the area or that, the ones that have been growing up here that are older, over thirteen, we have a program that’s eight to twenty-one, that either they belong to the racing team or they belong to the basketball team. And what we do is, having first supervised, not vandalizing the neighborhood, nor joining gangs, or drug use or abuse or dealing, we have them involved in sports, for example. Saturdays it’s a whole day affair. The coaches meet them here, and they either go to practice at Tropical Park, or the ones that are in the track and field, or the ones that, either basketball or baseball, it depends on the season, they meet here and either practice or play. They have counseling sessions. Peer pressure themes. They need to bring their report card. They need to show the coaches their homework done in order to play or practice. And it’s going great. Ana Carrasco
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Our children, as far as we know, are not that involved in those youth issues in the neighborhood as gangs and pregnancy.
AR: So, you’re saying, yeah--.
AC: We’ve been using the park at night. That at that, our presence in the park takes away from those others that used to use it more often, like, to have sex or to do drugs. And I think our presence in the park has made a difference. Apparently they go to another place now, which is, were using the park.
AR: So how long has this program been going on?
AC: For two years.
AR: For two years. And so you’ve seen a steady improvement, uh--?
AC: Oh yes.
AR: Uh, in the--.
AC: Our, I think, our presence and the fact that the park was fenced has kept many of those individuals out of the park. They used to get together and drink. Now, I don’t know. Apparently they have found another park to go drink. But not here. You can see them, but it’s not as much as it used to be. And I would assume that other people knowing that they would not encounter as much of a problem, they would start taking their children to the park at night.
AR: Would you say, how about the problem with the homeless? Has that been a problem in this area?
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AC: No.
AR: No.
AC: No. That’s an issue that is from the river east. Since this community is divided by the Miami River we don’t have the homeless problem. You could see one or two but it’s not an issue.
AR: Right. Interestingly enough--.
AC: As compared to downtown, from the other edge of the river.
AR: Right. Interestingly enough, you know, the homeless were an issue with Lummis Park, right across the river.
AC: Right. Yeah, that was a public housing park. [laughing]
AR: Yeah. It’s not too much of a problem here, and it’s not an issue here.
AC: No. The issue here [were] was the drugs and homosexuals.
AR: Was it mostly youth that were, or was it older people--?
AC: Old.
AR: It was older people that were the issue.
AC: Many years ago we had a gang that used to meet in the park, but not anymore. It was a matter of one or two a month. I don’t know, apparently they came from another state. And they used to meet at the park. Not anymore.
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AR: Well, do you remember a time when Jose Marti Park didn’t have those problems?
AC: Well, I can remember thirty years ago when the other administrator and the nun that founded Centro Mater, Centro Mater used to be at the park, nobody used to use that park but that nun and the volunteers that came from Cuba that helped her. So Centro Mater had its operations in the park because nobody used the park.
AR: Nobody used it at all?
AC: At all. And then, when the city realized that Centro Mater was taking care of the children in a preschool basis and then receiving children after school from two-thirty on, that it was a full day operation, they did the pool, the basketball courts. And the Kiwanis Club of Little Miami that donated the huge playground that is, it’s the one that we use nowadays. And then people in the area, it was because of migration, there wasn’t many people living here back in those days in the early sixties. And now it’s like a ghetto. This is the starting place for many, many people. Not Cubans now, but Central Americans, mostly Nicaraguans, and Guatemalans, and Salvadorans. This is a starting place.
AR: And--. [unidentified noise]
AC: They don’t have means of transportation, so it’s same thing like my family. Since that was the only alternative for Saturdays and Sundays, they use the park now. [unidentified noise] And they use the pool.
AR: So the park gets heavy use now, not just from the marginal people you mentioned before, but in general, it gets a lot of use from the community.
AC: Nowadays, yes.
AR: And what sorts of things, what sorts of activities, go on there daily? Ana Carrasco
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AC: Well, the racing team practices daily there. Either basketball, because of the season, or baseball, they practice every single day, and they play on Saturdays, and it’s all done at the park. Thanks to the donation of the Kiwanis, the playground is always full. The pool during the summer months - always full. And we had a, we had a team from the neighborhood, and they play soccer and they practice. And because the men practice, it attracts, like, other women and women with children because their husband or fiancé or boyfriend is practicing, they come more often.
AR: So it’s used, do the elderly come there at all? Are there the domino games that you had in Puerto Rico?
AC: No, no. I know that the domino games are still practiced on 8th where the domino park is, but not here.
AR: So it’s more the younger people.
AC: And I know there’s boxing practices conducted by a neighborhood group to keep teenagers out of drugs and illegal gambling and all that stuff, and vandalizing the neighborhood. So it’s used by a whole bunch compared to a couple of years ago that nobody used to go because of the presence of other people.
AR: [unidentified noise] We talked about the separation of other ethnic groups in Puerto Rico. Do you get that here at all? Especially since you have, I mean, do Nicaraguans, Colombians, Cubans, Puerto Ricans separate here?
AC: In this neighborhood? No.
AR: No. So--.
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AC: No. I think that since everyone that lives in this neighborhood is a newcomer, they tend to bond more easily because the basic needs are not met and you try to bond to whoever you can grab for support. That nationality is not an issue.
AR: Even between Cubans and other immigrant groups?
AC: No, no. Cubans don’t bond that easily. Ellos se creyan que son la última Coca-Cola en el desierto and they’re better than anybody else and I grew up like that.
AR: [laughing]
AC: I saw it in my family. [laughing]
AR: So the uh--.
AC: Eso muchacho no te convienen. Just because it was from another country. When I told my parents that I was dating a Peruvian, they went up the wall. [pause]
AR: [laughing] So--.
AC: They’re very clannish and very racist. I don’t know why, but that’s the way they are. And they protect their community very much.
AR: The Cubans, were talking about. Do you see that, do you see the walls in those regards crumbling at all in the neighborhood as more and more groups come in? Or, yeah, do you see any give there from the Cubans in terms of embracing others, even if it’s slowly?
AC: Well, I would say, the Kiwanis Club of Little Havana, and all the Kiwanis Clubs, they’re mainly Cubans.
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AR: Still?
AC: Still. They have made money and they’re wanting to give back to the community. Goya Foods, for example. One of our major contributors to Centro Mater is the Nonguey [?] and the Ortegas from the Goya Foods. Even though the majority of our children now are Nicaraguans, since not them, but the majority of the population here in the early sixties and seventies served in Centro Mater because of migration was Cubans, they still continue the mission through their siblings and their relatives. They have a huge fundraising every year, and it all comes to Centro Mater, not because the population is Cuban, but because they were immigrants once and they want to give that small push that can make the difference in many families. Not to have to pay for quality early childhood and to be exposed to good activities, they still contribute. So there are many, many Cubans that are willing to give back to a community, even though it’s not of Cuban origin.
AR: Right. [pause] Do you, how do you see the kids relating to each other here in terms of ethnic--?
AC: No barriers.
AR: No barriers. Cubans, Nicaraguans, Colombians, Venezuelans--.
AC: No barriers. Not even the Cuban newcomers, there’s no, and I think that other generations of Cubans, like my family, that would tend to be racist and clannish, since the population in Cuba now, it’s so different, that the population that my parents grew up in got very mixed…ahora, if you see a documentary from Cuba, the colors [are] is a very wide spectrum.
AR: Yeah, yeah.
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AC: They’re not that clannish. They’re, like, used to other ethnic groups. I have a whole bunch of rafters here that are mingling with Central Americans and South Americans that, my parents would have never done that, because they see or perceive themselves to be better than other groups. Newcomers are, like, used to other colors and other backgrounds and other ethnic groups.
AR: So what do you see as, I’m just making sure that we have, yeah, we still have, we’re almost done with that tape, what do you see the, how do you see the neighborhood developing in the future?
AC: Well, city and county officers are more conscientious of the importance of parks in areas, like for example, this area. They remodeled the park. They did another park, they remodeled the park that’s across Victoria, that used to be Victoria Hospital, that’s across from la Quimíca…[?]. It’s a beautiful park and they’re fencing it too, to keep it, uh… off street people or people that would not benefit from the use of the park. They’re creating more affordable housing for the area, not for the area to remain poor, but to have that sense of belonging and commitment and, this is mine, compared to, I’m renting and I don’t give a damn [for] of the building that’s not mine, I’m not going to take care of it. They’re creating, not low-income housing, but moderate, affordable housing, not for the neighborhood to remain being poor and it’s--.
AR: So you see it as a relatively bright, or at least a somewhat optimistic future for the neighborhood?
AC: I would say, I would say. They’re creating loan incentives for people to create businesses in the area, so I think they have realized that it’s a city problem and it’s everybody’s problem, because if there’s poverty here, and crime, and drugs, it’s a matter of citywide problem. Because somebody that’s not legally dealing drugs here can affect my children or my family that lives forty miles from here. So I think that we’ve had a wide Ana Carrasco
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turnover of conscientious officers taking care of poverty pockets. And not only the parks, but the facilities and the businesses, not to remodel, but to renovate areas to attract people.
AR: How about something we haven’t really talked about, I guess because I’m trying to concentrate mostly on Little Havana specifically, but maybe we should mention something about the use of beaches here in Miami? How does that compare to Puerto Rico? Do you use the beach a lot here in Miami? Does your family go to the beach a lot here in Miami? Any particular reason why not, or--?
AC: We have a lake.
AR: OK.
AC: Behind our house. We tend to use the lake, to avoid the--.
AR: What do you--?
AC: And Miami Lakes.
AR: And Miami Lakes. OK, so it’s a transportation issue, the distance, the commute there--.
AC: Distance, I would say.
AR: OK, um--.
AC: But I know that the beaches are crowded. [telephone rings] It’s not that people don’t go, it’s just that, we don’t go because we have access [telephone rings] to the pool and the lakes.
AR: Right. I think we have enough tape to talk a little bit about the, comparative neighborhoods. Something we talked about public spaces in Puerto Rico and here, and the comparisons, made some comparisons, but neighborhoods. How would you describe the Ana Carrasco
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neighborhood that you grew up in Puerto Rico and how is it different and how is it different than or similar to the neighborhood you’re in here in Little Havana? Well, not that, that you work in, in Little Havana, you don’t live here.
AC: Well, as I was telling you, Puerto Ricans are very friendly. We knew everybody, and if I was playing on the streets, everybody would watch for everybody that was on the street. [telephone rings] And I think that because of the social problems that were here in the area [telephone rings], people used to stay at home and play. [telephone rings] Nintendos because they thought it was safer. But now that things are taking [telephone rings], being taken care of, people tend to let their children out more than it used to be like a couple of years ago. That it was a threat, letting your children play on the street.
AR: So you think it’s a, people perceive it as a safer neighborhood now. It’s no longer--.
AC: Yes. I remember that I, when it was summertime, I used to spend the day in our block, always playing out. People don’t take to let their children out that much here, but because the area’s safer, they tend to use the park and let the children play outside more. Nowadays, you don’t know who your neighbor is, so you tend to keep your children inside. That’s my assumption.
AR: Yeah. Why do you think that is, that people don’t, that neighbors don’t know each other as well?
AC: Well, I remember that my family from Puerto Rico, you lived in a house and you would live there forever. No because of mobility reasons, for economic reasons, you tend to move more. And people tend to move to wherever you can find a better economic position. And you have a neighbor now and you wouldn’t have it here for two months, and then somebody else comes in. So then you really don’t know the neighbor. When I was growing up, you had a neighbor and it was like part of your family because you grew up with that neighbor for the longest and you saw generation after generation. It was like part of your family. But Ana Carrasco
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nowadays, you don’t have that contact because people tend to move for whatever reason. Here for economic reasons and for other reasons, because they cannot afford to pay the rent, so they don’t give advice to the landlord and they move, not to pay that month. And for other reasons. Legal reasons. So it’s different.
AR: Well thank you so much for this. Is there anything that we’ve talked about, I’m sorry, that we haven’t talked about that you want to mention about the neighborhoods, public spaces, or any other concerns that you have? No, OK, well thanks again. Thank you very much.
AC: Gracias. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B