Interview with Officer Jose Traiana

              Special Collections
Public Spaces in Miami: An Oral History Project
Interview with Joe Triana
Miami, Florida, June 4th, 1999
Interview IPH-0031
Interviewed by Aldo Regalado
Recorded by Aldo Regalado
Summary: This interview with Officer Joe Triana was conducted June 1999. Officer Triana is a mounted police officer in Miami, on assignment at Lummus Park. He talks about his experiences growing up in New Jersey, and his subsequent life in Miami. Specifically, Officer Triana relates his perceptions about the neighborhood in which he grew up, as well as the neighborhoods where he currently works as a mounted police officer in Miami.
This interview forms part of the Institute for Public History (IPH) Oral History Collection, directed by Professor Greg Bush from the History Department and curated by the University of Miami Libraries Special Collections.
Copyright to this interview lies with the University of Miami. The interview recordings or transcript may not be reproduced, retransmitted, published, distributed, or broadcast without the permission of the Special Collections. For information about obtaining copies or to request permission to publish any part of this interview, please contact Special Collections at asc@miami.edu.
1300 Memorial Drive, Coral Gables, FL 33124-0320 * 305-284-3580 * 305-284-4901 fax Joe Triana 2
June 4, 1999
Aldo Regalado: This is Aldo Regalado. It is June 4th, 1999 and I am at Lummus Park located in Miami, Florida at Northwest Third Avenue and Second Street. Today I will be interviewing Officer Joe Triana who works at the park as a mounted police officer. The focus of the interview will be public space issues as well as history of the neighborhood, or the neighborhoods that Officer Triana has lived and worked in. Okay, Officer Triana, thank you so much for doing this today. Let’s start off with some questions about your background and your early life. Could you tell me when and where you were born?
Joe Triana: Okay. I was born in Cuba, Santa Clara, Cuba. I relocated here to the United States when I was three years old back in 1960, September 1960. Came over with my parents and we relocated up to New Jersey, Union City, New Jersey back then. I grew up there. My educational background is elementary school, [and] then I went to high school, Union Hill High School. From there I developed an interest in architecture. I was going to school, taking up drafting in high school and that was my interest there. So, I went to NYIT, New York Institute of Technology, and I took up architectural engineering. But, weather-wise, the weather was kind of cold up there so I came down a couple of times to vacation in Miami, Florida and I loved it. So, after one year of my college up there, NYIT, I said, “Well, let me try moving down to Florida and see how it is down in Miami.” So, I moved down here. I was about nineteen years old. I enjoyed the weather. I was going to the beach every day with the sun. It was beautiful. Sunsets and all that compared up to New York, all the grey skies and gloomy days. So I said, “Well, this is where I’m going to live.” At that time I enrolled in the University of Miami and I couldn’t attend because financially-wise I wasn’t set to go to that school. So, I attended Miami-Dade. [I] graduated from Miami-Dade with an AA and an AS in Aviation Administration and Business Administration. Then I continued my studies in FIU. I was there for about a year in FIU, took up business administration, then from there again financially-wise. Then there was an opening for a police officer. I said, “Well, let me try police work see how it is. I like working out there in the streets out with the public.” So I said, “Let me try it and see how that career goes.” I applied, they called me in, I took the test, I passed the test, I passed the interview, took the physical test and all of that, and I Joe Triana 3
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became a police officer. And right now that’s where I stand and it’s great. I went to the police academy and I’ve been on for about sixteen years now with the police department. I did nine and a half years of street patrol which is very fulfilling educational-wise. You see a lot of things that a normal person does not see. You have to deal with the worst and the good part of daily life. That’s what’s good about this job. You really see how life is out there dealing with these people. It’s rewarding, you have it good and you have it bad, but it’s rewarding. You learn. Sometimes you have to be a father, a mother, a psychologist, a doctor, and you have to give advice to people. The rewarding part about this job is when you help them. You deal with them, and you help them out, and you sort out their problems. And then what’s good is when you see them maybe a week, or maybe a month later down the road they go, Oh, Officer Triana! How are you doing? Remember what I did? I took your advice. I went here and I went there and it went great and now I’m doing this. Thank God that you gave me this advice. And after you’ve had that little talk and you go away you say, Wow, that’s good that at least I helped somebody and they accomplished something. You get some people off the streets. You know, big drug problem. Not all of them, but at least if you get one person, one drug addict off the street, set their mind on a good path. You know, you find them a job or something, which is good. Unfortunately, the women that work on the streets are prostitutes. Everybody has their difficulties in life. Everybody has their ups and downs along life. Some get hit harder than others. When you find a person like that, you talk to them. And some of them, believe it or not, are very educated people. They’re very smart. But it happens, they have this trauma in life that either they have some personal problem which traumatizes them, or financial problem where they can’t really get up back on their feet. You just help them out and talk to them and hopefully they accomplish something and they go on the right direction. One out of a whole lot takes that advice and it works out for them. That’s rewarding. That’s what the job is about. That’s why I feel good about this job. I said that was nine and a half years of street patrol then I went into the mounted patrol. I was interested. I said, “Well, let me see the mounted patrol. That’s dealing with animals, horses. Great.” Like I said, I grew up in Jersey, the New York area, which, really, there’s Joe Triana 4
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[are] not a lot of farms up there. It’s city life. So, I said, “Well, that’s an interest, let me try it.” So, like I said, I applied for the unit, I was selected, I went to interviews, and there I was. I was there, they called me. And I started a new direction here working with animals and all of that, with horses. And it was interesting at first learning how to ride; I took my good falls because I never rode a horse. I developed my riding skills and all this, like they say now, horsemanship, which was great, you learn about that. And you get close to your animal. When they give you your horse you’ve got to groom them and you have to bond with them so you get used to them. It’s like a dog, the horse is a little bit bigger, but you have a bond. And it’s interesting because when you have such a big animal next to you like that, and they see that you’re the person who’s taking care of them, they trust you that you’re going to help them and take care of them so they really get close to you.
AR: How long have you been doing the mounted patrol specifically?
JT: Well, the mounted patrol, I’ve been on now for about seven years with the mounted patrol. And it’s great because what’s good about this unit is normally you go into the inner city. Kids there don’t normally see a horse on a daily basis. And when you go to the schools on a presentation and you show them this horse, this animal, and they come out of the trailer, their eyes open up like, Wow, look how big that thing is. They’ve never seen a horse before. And it’s great, at first they’re scared, but then you talk to them, and you make them relax, and you make them come up, and tell them a little bit about your horse and your job, what you do and then you bring them up and tell them, Come on touch him, don’t be scared. And they’ll start touching him on the nose, on the side of the body, and they feel more relaxed. You can see them more relaxed and they enjoy that. And next thing you know, when you finish your presentation, they’re saying, Oh, I’m going to go visit you when I grow up, I want to have a horse, I want to ride a horse, and this and that. Which is good, at least you give them a little education. It’s tradition, in a sense, because nowadays you don’t see too many horses out in the streets. And it’s tradition to go back in time, in other words, and showing them how it was back then. Joe Triana 5
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How it was when they didn’t have automobiles. Sometimes they ask me, “How was it back then?” For transportation they had horses and they used to do this. They had carriages. To the stores, they would go in horse and carriage, or if you wanted to go somewhere they had a horse and carriage like a taxi. You go in the carriage, it would take you somewhere, and that’s how it used to be back then. You give them a little insight in that and they wonder; they’re there like, Wow. It’s great.
AR: Which schools do you normally go to and do you get to do these presentations often?
JT: These presentations, I go to private schools, I got to inner city schools, I go to public schools. I go to all schools. When they call on us, we go to them. It’s in City of Miami, and also we do out in the area like Dade County. We also go out to schools out in Dade County and we do presentations.
AR: How about in terms of your actual patrols? Do you basically stick to the park or do you go beyond it? What neighborhoods do you frequent, your patrol?
JT: Right now, I’ve worked almost all the neighborhoods in our beat, in our section. Let’s say for example, right now I’m assigned to, I just came over this month to this park, Lummus Park. This beat here, it’s considered Riverside now. It’s a new opening, a new beat that opened up and it’s considered like Downtown beat. So what I do is I come here, and because it’s a park we have shade trees and all of that. We trailer in the horses. We set up with the horses. Get them ready, tacked, put the saddles on and everything. Then we go out to the Downtown area, that’s a beat. Downtown, Bayside, or Bayfront Park. And then from there we have now, like I said, we have the Riverside beat which is a very historical—I’ll get to that in a minute. And the beat is along the river. It’s called River Drive. And then we ride up and down River Drive along here. It’s very nice. The people here, we have several buildings which are for the retired, for the elderly. And they enjoy when we go stop there and talk to them, see how everything is working out with them, make sure they’re safe. And let them know that we’re in the area and anything they need, Joe Triana 6
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we’re here. So, that’s good and we have a good rapport with them. The merchants, we also have merchants along the river here. We have fishermen that have been here for many, many years. Then the restaurants, too, that bring in the lunch time people from the Downtown area, brings in the crowd. And it’s good because when they see an officer on horseback at least they see somebody and they feel more safe. They feel protected, at least, in a sense, and they enjoy their stay around here in the area.
AR: Could you give me a sense of—maybe be more specific about some of these merchants or the restaurants in terms of, are there any longstanding businesses or that sort of thing, or businesses or merchants that make a particular contribution to the area?
JT: Well, yes, we have, like I said, Riverside here, we have merchants that have been here for many years.
AR: Any particular names?
JT: We have an East Coast Fishery. We have Garcia Seafood. And as you go down the road we have the City of Miami Administrative Office down the road, which contains all of the administrative offices of the City of Miami. Also, we keep on going we have residents that have been here for many years, which contribute here. And they tell you stories of way back. So, that’s a contribution to, say, the police officer of the area to get to know his area. And also when you talk to the merchants, they let you know, or give you a little insight of what kind of people they deal with, the clients that come in. Or, unfortunately you got the riff-raff, they tell you, look, at a certain time of the day we had so many people standing over here, they’re no good, they do these things. And then we get involved and help them out with the information they give us. But they contribute to the park, like the Riverfest they have here at Lummus Park, they contribute their services, catering services. We’re talking about if you need food, drinks, sodas or something. That means they contribute that too, which is good. They have their business in the neighborhood and they contribute to the neighborhood. So everybody just gets along.
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AR: So you consider it to be a tight community?
JT: Yes, most definitely.
AR: The merchants know each other?
JT: Oh, yes, sure the merchants know each other. And we’re right in the middle because we deal with the merchants and we deal with the residents. We’re that line in the middle because the residents will come to us, Oh and how is it down the street? Was that problem taken care of? Sure, no problem you can go down there. It’s no big deal, it’s taken care of. And then they go down the block and they enjoy walking at nighttime, they’ll go down there and walk. See, they won’t be scared. And then the merchants will ask us, How is it over there? Did you get that abandoned car out of the way? Sure we took care of that. See? That’s how it works. Really, we’re right in the middle and we deal with both.
AR: So, compared to other neighborhoods in Miami, or neighborhoods that you’ve visited, would you consider this to be relatively a safe area, a safe area relatively speaking?
JT: Sure. Relatively speaking, like you say, I consider it a safe area. Now, I’m not going to say it’s one hundred percent safe, but we do the best we can. We do the best we can because we already know we have the contacts with the local residents and the merchants and we know who doesn’t belong here. We keep an eye on them and we already know who belongs here or not. Now, comparing other neighborhoods compared to this area, it’s a lot larger area that we have to control. It’s not that easy for us because we have other peoples coming in and out. But, basically when you have an area like this particular area here, like Lummus Park, the Riverside, and Downtown, we already have this under control in the sense that we know who comes in and who goes out. It’s not a hundred percent safe, but sure enough it’s going to be safe for the people who come to this area.
AR: What type of crime do you have to deal with mostly here? Joe Triana 8
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JT: The only crime that we’re dealing with here are the people who complain about people breaking into their cars. Nothing major, no assaults, no robberies, or anything like that.
AR: No drugs?
JT: No drugs. After we started patrolling the area, they disappeared. Because the bad guys see now that they have somebody here. Our job is to be high visibility on horseback, riding around, mounted patrol, high visibility. And that deters the crime right there, that’s what happened and it dropped completely. The park here used to be full of vagrants, homeless people. Unfortunately, they don’t have a home, but they can’t be in a park twenty-four hours a day. So, we helped them, we tried to find them some place to relocate. Thank God it worked out and now the park is cleared of not all of the riff-raff, but the riff-raff that used to come here alone, which used to bring problems, it’s clearing out. So, basically crime here is not that much of an issue here. Now if you go into other neighborhoods you’re going to have crime because we have areas that have drugs. And they have drugs, and they’re bringing people, and you’re going to bring crime.
AR: Which neighborhoods in particular?
JT: We’re talking about Allapattah where I work. There’s several other areas there that are drugs areas, Overtown, which have their particular spots which are drugs. When you have drugs, you have problems. You have people going in. They have to get the drugs, they go out and they do the crime: they break into cars or they rob people to get the money to supply themselves with the drugs. Those areas there are more—I would say, economically it’s lower income people. That’s why probably something like that, that’s why it’s the issue. And, in a sense, in that area they don’t have any labor or, development for work, work development places for work. Unfortunately, it’s like that. But, little by little, it’s progress. The city’s been involved in helping out, and we help them out. We have set up programs for them, which is good. But, little by little. Joe Triana 9
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AR: I think you kind of answered this already, but I was going to ask you, why mounted police officers? Is it just a visibility issue?
JT: You mean why do they have mounted officers in a particular neighborhood?
AR: As opposed to patrol cars, or motorcycle.
JT: Well, it goes back to the City of Miami as a tradition. The mounted patrol was started by Chief [Unclear] back in the 1930s. It’s a tradition. You see, back then we’re talking about Comstock Park, that’s an historical park there also. It’s on Northwest Seventeenth Avenue and Twenty-eighth Street. It used to be one of the pioneer families that started here in Miami, which I think was the Sewell family, I’m not too correct on that, I’m not too sure. But, what happened is they started the mounted patrol and they would donate a horse for the particular neighborhood. So, you have a horse that the family would donate and they say, Okay we have a horse, let’s get an officer on the horse, and that’s how everything got started. Like down in Brickell, we have another horse down in Brickell, Coconut Grove. See, the merchants would donate horses and that’s how it is. And talking about why compared to a patrol car, it’s the high visibility, and also it’s when you’re going to communicate with people out there. A lot of people prefer, sometimes, going up to an officer with a horse. That’s the first thing they’re going to come up to, Oh what a beautiful horse, or what a nice horse. And they’ll start touching the horse and that’s where you have the communication between the police officer, not being a bad guy, but the police officer and the people. In a car, what you see is the police officer riding around with his windows up and that’s it, goes right by and that’s it. There’s no communication. At least the horse draws attention to the public. They walk up and that’s where you have your communication. You say, Wow, that police officer was not a bad guy, at least I can talk to him. He’s not like I see usually out on TV: the bad guy or something like that, the tough, macho type guy. But, at least I have some communication with that guy. So, that’s one of the reasons why. High visibility deters crime in the area. That’s one of the reasons.
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AR: I wanted to ask a little bit about Lummus Park in particular. How often is it used? Is it a frequented park? And what sort of people use it?
JT: Unfortunately, they just got the park started now. They fenced it off because, like I said, there was a lot of homeless people that used to come in here, but they fenced off the park. How frequent they use it? I mean you have the residents, like right across the street from the park, they have an elderly folks home [unclear]. The old folks come here during the afternoon, and walk around the park. Or at night time when it’s cool, they come out here. And like where we’re sitting now, you can see for entertainment they have their own little building here and they have like chess boards, checkers, and dominoes. They also have, like in this building here, they have a little dance studio, you see. When they have a little party or something they get together here. But it’s frequented a lot by the people in the neighborhoods. They have the community meetings here, which is good. That’s the community with the police department and try see what kind of problems or what issues they can solve and come and work out together. It’s important. I think in most areas now they do have something set up like this, which it’s called neighborhood policing for us. But, it’s a program which in they pick a particular park or a particular area and they have something like this, these kinds of offices. And it draws the people together and the police department together, which is good. Seeing that and, like we said, how often do they frequent the area? They would frequent it more, would come more to the park, because they know police are going to be there and they’re going to be protected. That’s the main thing. They’ll worry about crime and that but they’ll be protected because, Oh there’s a police over there on horseback or there’s a patrolman there. So, that’s what’s good about it.
AR: And are there any other people other than the elderly? Do younger people use it? Do the merchants come here off hours and use it?
JT: The merchants come here at lunchtime, they do. They come by. The people that are working around here or will come and visit in the area. They do come by. They come into Joe Triana 11
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the park and they get to know a little bit about it because Lummus Park, right here, is very historical. We have one of the oldest houses on the property here in the park, and also a fort. It’s called Fort Dallas, one of the original trading posts here close to the Miami River, which, you know, it’s a lot of history. It’s one of the oldest buildings here. You know, it’s interesting because they come in, and they walk around in the park, and they see these buildings, and they have the little plaques there and it tells them a little background, a little story about the building. So it’s interesting. But, what I was saying is… I lost it. [Laughter] So many things in my mind now.
AR: We were talking earlier about the park having been cut down significantly. Do you want to talk a little bit about that, a little history?
JT: Yeah, a little bit of history about Lummus Park, let’s see. Originally the park used to go all the way down to the old courthouse. We’re talking from the river all the way down to the old courthouse on Seventy-three West Flagler, which is a pretty large size. It’s, I would say, about a quarter of a mile long almost. But, it’s a wide area. And then the development in the 1960s with I-95 coming through, it cut the park to, literally, more than half of the park was gone. And then they developed, east of I-95, the Downtown area, which was buildings and all of that. Then they just had a little patch. Then somebody said, Hey look Lummus Park is a historical site, they have a fort there and it’s been here for many years. So, they made it a historical site. And what’s interesting about it now, for the past couple of years they have a festival here, which I enjoy. It’s called the Riverside Festival, which I really enjoy. And it’s great because they come in here and they go back in time, in other words. They dress up like back then in the 1800s, and you have a militia, and they have all these artifacts there, which is great. And then people come in and they look at these things, and it’s back in time! It’s incredible! I was lucky enough to do one of these festivals about two years ago, and I met very good people. A lot of them told me history and stories about this area here which I never knew. And that’s how you get to know things, and I was astounded by it.
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AR: Who organizes it?
JT: The NET office here and also the Historical Museum, or those people who organize the historical sites in the area, that’s who organized it. I can’t really elaborate too much on who organized it because I’m not too familiar. But there were a lot of people here. And there were from different states which came down and had their little exhibitions of old time tools. There was one party there that had old knitting-works, the way they knitted back then, and their clothing, and how they made their clothing. You know, like that, which is interesting. Simple things like spoons. What kind of utensils they used to have back then. Simple things which you never see now or then, because those are way gone by now. And it’s incredible when you see these things. The different kind of dressing from the eras. The Civil War dress and the Spanish-American War dress. They had exhibits there: clothing and soldiers and pictures, and the stories behind all these pictures, which was great.
AR: Do people from the community participate in the festival, too? Or is it mostly outsiders coming in?
JT: No, it’s a combination of both. People from the community and people that come from out. Out front of the park they have like little food courts. Go out, you have a soda, have a drink, sell a hot dog and then you enjoy the day. But it was great. You meet a lot of interesting people which inform you about a lot of good things. It’s great.
AR: How many years have they been doing that now?
JT: I think they’ve been doing it for the past three years, this festival. I didn’t get a chance to work this last festival, which was not too long ago, because I was on a [unclear] job, they sent me to another job. It’s great, they should keep on doing this. If they get a chance they should do it in other areas so, like I said, the people who do live in the neighborhood realize what they have in their neighborhoods and appreciate it more and take care of it. Maybe that would be good for the taking care of for the parks and Joe Triana 13
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other buildings. Like kids, I would say, kids look at this and they say, Wow there’s history behind that. Instead of writing graffiti on old buildings that are abandoned, which they don’t know what it is. But it means something to other people, which is historical. Which is true, there’s a lot of old buildings around here in the area and in Miami, which goes way back. Like down in Coconut Grove they have an area there where they have these old buildings that survived the hurricane in 1926. And you look at these houses and you say, Wow, this is incredible. It’s a couple of blocks and a lot of people don’t know until you talk to the residents in the neighborhood and you go, Wow, these houses how long? Oh, they’ve been here since the early 1900s, late 1800s. And they were built like this, it’s incredible. You go there and you can see the way they’re constructed, because in between the houses, they’re held by cable bars. You see this only in Key West and, you know, Key West most of the buildings are historical there. And back then it was the Bahamians that went in there, the Bahamians that went to Coconut Grove and were the first settlers there in that particular area. Then you go, Wow, that’s a lot of history, which is great.
AR: One last question, for now anyway, about who comes to the park. Do you have any young people, kids, or teenagers who come to the park? And, if so, how would you say the park affects them or impacts them?
JT: Around here you don’t see too many young kids that often, maybe a couple, but not as much because we have elderly homes, two retirement homes, in the area plus you have the Downtown area. You don’t have schools around here. The schools are apart from here, they’re not close. So, you don’t have too many kids around here in this neighborhood. Mostly it’s grown-ups, adults that live around this area.
AR: Would you say the park is well known beyond the immediate area?
JT: Sure, the park is well known. Besides that, even though not many kids frequent the park, in the park, you have a playground for them. You can see out there, if you go out there, there’s a playground. They had kids in mind. If they do come, they have Joe Triana 14
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playgrounds out there. But, unfortunately, only adults live in this area here, not that many kids. The park is well known. You have people, like I said, I’m in the festival and people come from across town and say, Yeah Lummus Park has been here and they give you a little background and it’s good.
AR: Well, you brought up a lot of great stuff that we may return to later, but I wanted to ask you some more stuff about your background and maybe also spend some time on New Jersey. You lived in New Jersey for a while. Could you give me an idea of your family life? Did you have any brothers and sisters, for instance?
JT: No, I was the only child. I grew up up north and the climate up there was cold. But it was fun because every city has their nostalgia, I don’t know if that’s the word to use. But it’s great, you grow up in a big city. Going to school up there was different. Except for the grammar school and high school. But, I really learned when I started going to college. I went to New York. I was exposed to big life and the big city. It’s different because now you’re out of your world. And up there it’s incredible because it’s international. You have people from all over the world. I started going to architecture school up there and I met people from all over the world. It was incredible.
AR: How did that experience affect you?
JT: It gave me a different outlook. I say, Hey, don’t just be contained to your little neighborhood. You have to be open because you have so many people. I grew up mainly with a Cuban background. I was born in Cuba. I came to the States when I was three years old, so I’ve been here for a while. But still, you have to open up and talk to other people so you can learn about their cultures, which you do learn. They talk about simple things. About their food, Hey you want to try some of this, Hey sure! They bring their own food and you learn about their food. Their dress, the way they dress. The way they talk, their communication. We’ll sit down on a break and we’ll talk, Yeah back home I used to do this, I used to run at such and such fields, or go up in the mountains and do all Joe Triana 15
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this. Things like that. And you go, Wow! Like I said, up there it’s a big city. Some of my friends I had, one was from Tanzania. He said, No I go about a mile and I actually see all the wildlife out there. And I go, Really? Yeah! Then I had friends from London, Europe. I had French, I had Germans. It was great. And it was good because it gave me a better outlook. It opened my mind, in a sense, when I dealt with all these people. Different cultures. You learn. It’s not just one [unclear] neighborhood, that’s what you do. Play stickball, that’s a big thing up there, play stickball, head down the block, and go bowling, and that’s it. There’s a lot of other things besides, out of that particular block. Up there it’s blocks. We had so-and-so from the Forty-third Street Boys. We used to do this thing, you know the gang. Not like the gangs now but—
[Tape Breaks]
AR: This is Aldo Regalado at Lummus Park continuing the June 4th interview with Officer Joe Triana. Well, we were just talking about your neighborhood back in New Jersey. Was it Union City?
JT: Union City, New Jersey.
AR: Actually, I wanted to ask you some questions about that because one of the things we’re trying to do is get a sense of how Miami neighborhoods may be unique or different from other Miami neighborhoods, but also from neighborhoods from elsewhere, out of Florida. So, what kind of neighborhood did you grow up in? How would you describe it?
JT: Well, the neighborhood I grew up with, everybody was close-knit. Families were close-knit and everybody knew just everybody from there. Everybody’s parents would go, Hey, so-and-so got in trouble. Wait until I see your father, I’m going to tell him what you did. No, no, please don’t! So, up there everybody was close-knit. Everybody took care and looked out for each other. Comparing it to, let’s say, if you weren’t from that particular neighborhood they already knew that you were a troublemaker, Hey so-and-so is a troublemaker, watch out, we already knew, or were aware. Comparing it to down Joe Triana 16
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here, I don’t know. I did not have a childhood down here so I really can’t say how it was down here. I came down here when I was like nineteen or twenty years old and I was in college. So I really didn’t experience childhood down here, going to school and that development stage going to school and high school. So I really don’t know how it is, or would be. I guess the way I see it, as working as a police officer, in my experience, seeing the kids out there, the juveniles, would be the same way that in the neighborhood they were close-knit. They would know, from across the street to house by house, they know who lived there. There were that many kids on the block or the street.
AR: In Union City what was the, the block that you lived in, what was the economic level?
JT: The economic level was medium class. There was medium class and upper-medium class. We had a wide variety of people living there, not only Cubans. As a matter of fact, then, we had Italians, we had Germans, Polish. It was a mix of people, which was great. The Italians, one weekend or one day, they’ll invite everybody from the block down to the basement, up there they had basements. This particular family lived in a four-story building and they were all a family. Down in the basement they would make their own seasoning. They would make their own tomato sauce. And the wine, they would make the wines and all that. You would see the truck come in and bring in the crates of grapes. And you go, Wow, I’ve never seen that before. And since you already know them and you’re already in that particular neighborhood with them, you live there for a certain amount of years, they already trust you. So, in fact, you’re down with the family and you’ll be there stepping in the wine barefoot in the big barrel, stepping in there barefoot, crushing the grapes and making wine. Or making the tomato sauce. Normally, a Latin family doesn’t do that, but now you learn something there. And they show you the way they cook and all that. And they have a little Italian party in the backyard with all the goodies, all the food. And then the Cubans on one side will call them over, invite them over and show them the roast pig up there and all that. And that’s the way it was up there. That’s the way that I grew up in that neighborhood where I lived. Joe Triana 17
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AR: So it was a good relationship?
JT: Yeah, it was a good relationship.
AR: Were there ever any conflicts along ethnic lines?
JT: Not at all. Where I grew up there, I shouldn’t say there weren’t, but in the area I was in, there wasn’t. Everybody was close-knit. I’m not going to say there weren’t any ethnic conflicts because there were. We had the Italians against the Blacks, the Cubans against the Puerto Ricans, and believe it or not Latin against Latin, and back and forth. You had your little pockets of that. It’s all over, that’s not safe. You always have your little ethical something somewhere. But where I grew up, we were tight. That was the best thing, everybody understood each other and respected each other. There were hard working people back there. That’s basically what drew everybody together, because you can see what kind of person you are, if you’re respectable. If you work, they see you’re a working person, your family, if you have a good family. It’s respect, they’re good people. If you have somebody there who’s a drunk and then nobody works [unclear] you say, What the heck is this? That tells a lot about you. They’re going to judge. If you have a Latin family there like that, they’re going to say all Latins are drunks. You know how that stigma goes. So that’s the way it was. They could see the way your family is. Hardworking people, my mom and dad worked two jobs and I used to work for my parents delivering papers. So they could see how you are. They accepted that. If you’re a respectable, hard-working family, they accepted that. We’re good people. That’s how everybody grew up together and related to each other.
AR: And what did your parents do for a living? What did they work at?
JT: My father back then, he worked as a mechanic, but he was more like an electronic mechanic. He worked with small appliances. My mom, she was drawn to factory work, at a handbag factory, and made handbags. That’s where she worked.
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AR: Would you say that your neighborhood was a safe neighborhood to live in? Were you, let’s say, comfortable walking around at night?
JT: Yeah, back there where I lived it was comfortable. It was quiet. Like I said, everybody knew each other. No particular problems. Walking around at night was no problem. I don’t know about now. There’s a lot of changes all over the place, I don’t know about now. But back then, yeah.
AR: What did you guys do for fun? You mentioned stickball. You mentioned bowling.
JT: Yeah, well, up there in the city you really didn’t have that many parks. Stickball. You set up a baseball diamond out in the middle of the street. Home base, one car would be first, the sewer hole in the middle of the street would be second, and another car would be third, and then you’ve got home plate painted down, spray-painted in the middle of the street. And that’s stickball. And you have the guys and you have a little baseball game. Or else we used to play stickball against the wall. You used to have the square as the strikeout zone. With spaldeens, those are the balls we used to use. We use a rubber ball, spaldeens. The only balls used for stickball. And we used to play handball up against the wall. And football in the street. Summertime, that’s what we used to do. Then when the wintertime came, the cold, basically we were out there playing the same. Football season would come and we would play football in the middle of the street in the snow and all that. Basketball, we would go out to the schoolyard and play basketball out in the schoolyard. That’s the type of childhood. That’s about it. Snowball fights. Whatever, it was an agenda at the time. We used to go down to the river and fish, the Hudson River, we used to go down and fish. That was an adventure. Go down to the Hudson River and we used to fish in the Hudson River and all we used to catch were eels. The catfish, forget about the catfish, they were ugly things. We were scared to handle them because that was so polluted back then. Unfortunately it’s a beautiful river, but it was polluted back then. You pick up these grimy things coming out of there and you didn’t know if it was a fish or a ball of mud. But that was it. Joe Triana 19
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AR: So it was a good childhood?
JT: Yeah. When we had the chance, Jersey Shore, we used to go down to the beach and all that. It was very nice.
AR: What was the beach like, what was that like over there?
JT: The water was cold. The beaches were very nice, small, little towns. They were very nice. It was beautiful. Like you see in these paintings: you see a little store, and then you see the sand dunes, and then the saw grass, and the little fence. It’s incredible. That’s the way it used to be, the beaches out there, the shoreline. But, now it’s progress. I remember when I used to go a couple of times to Atlantic City, it was an old beach resort place. Old homes, the boardwalk, all of that. But now you have casinos, you have Atlantic City. But, the beach area up there was very nice. It was very quaint in many places, very quaint. It was great, I enjoyed it. I miss it sometimes. The only thing is the water is too cold up there. You couldn’t go in the ocean up there. I mean, if you jump in the ocean, you had to jump out the next second shivering. It was so cold, the water, you would be shivering. I mean, it would be ninety-five degrees. The sand, you can even walk on the sand. And if you jumped in that water, you had to jump out and put a towel around yourself. You had to cover yourself. That’s how cold that water is. But it was great.
AR: Who would you normally go to beaches with? With your family or with friends?
JT: Family. Friends. Yeah, that’s it. We used to go a lot to a place up in coastal upstate New York. It was on the border state of New Jersey and New York, there was a park there used to be called Bear Mountain. You ever heard that? Route Nine going north?
AR: My wife’s been to Bear Mountain, she lived up in New Jersey.
JT: Bear Mountain. It’s a park and also they had a swimming pool. In summertime, usually on the weekends, that was the place to go, everybody would go. Joe Triana 20
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AR: Daytrips? Or spend time there?
JT: No, just daytrips. Saturday afternoon or Sunday the whole day. Because they had a campground there, you also have a picnics. You have a picnic and then you have the pool. Everybody would swim a little bit in the pool and then go back to the picnic. Then you have the mountains, you go out in the mountains and do a little hiking. You have the waterfalls there, all the creeks and little waterfalls. You go have an adventure. You’re in the city, you have these tall buildings all the time, then you go out into the mountains and it’s completely different. It’s good.
AR: How do you think these experiences have affected you: going to the beach, going to these parks? What effect did that have on you?
JT: I have to tell you the truth, it made you feel adventurous, in a sense. That’s the experience that I felt because you see this wide open area and all you see is trees and trees and mountains. And you go, Wow. And then you start and you say, I’m going to go over there. So you start hiking and see if you can make it over there. And then, along the way, you might see a deer. Maybe you see a new bird that you normally don’t see in the city, all you see is pigeons or rats. That’s the city. But out there in the mountains, you see a new bird, or you see a woodpecker. You see something, Daddy, wow, have you ever seen that? It’s curiosity, you’ve never seen it, so you stand there looking at it. Or you might see a raccoon. You never see a raccoon. Things like that, the wildlife. But I mean it’s nature. It’s completely different, the nature. Then you walk and all the sudden you find yourself a little waterfall. You take time and you take a little bath under the waterfall. The water’s coming from the mountains. You see a creek, you go in there and see if you can find some fish. You go try to catch a little tadpole.
AR: Without those experiences, how does the city make you feel in contrast to that? What emotions do you get from growing up in a city neighborhood like that?
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JT: In the city you have all these buildings. You feel confined because all the time you’re going to have everything, all the people. Like when I used to go to school in New York City, you stop at a crosswalk to get across the street. Next thing you know, you’ve been there for one minute, when you look back you see a hundred to a hundred and fifty people there waiting to go across the street. And then when the sign changes to walk, all the sudden you see a wall right across. On the subways at rush hour, incredible. I mean, I never used to go in front with a platform when you’re waiting for a train. You’ve got to make sure, when a train is coming, make sure you’re not that close to the platform because it’s like sardines. Everybody is like sardines. You look over and you see all the little heads. My emotion was confined, it was just confined to that area. And everything was so rushed. Everything was stressed, in a sense, you would say, because you had to get there on time. Then when you change from that environment to going to the beach or going out to the mountains, it’s very different, it’s very nice. It’s great. That’s the kind of emotion that you feel. That’s my experience. Every day rushing. Rush, rush, rush, I have to beat everyone. Rush hour. And once you’re out there you relax. I don’t know if I said it right.
AR: I think you did. I think you said it great. How about museums? Were there a lot of museums?
JT: Oh, that is beautiful. That is what they like down here. Not down here. Up there, I mean. That’s the one thing that I enjoyed, was the museums up in New York City. You had all types of art museums, natural history museums, which is one thing I missed. It’s a shame that they don’t have them down here because I learned a lot. When I used to go to school, we used to have field trips because we used to go to school there. Grammar school, high school, we used to go on trips to the Museum of Natural History, or the Guggenheim Museum of Art, the Modern Museum of Art. And it was great, you spend the whole day there and you could go the next day. You could spend a week there and you would still pay. That is what they should have down here, those museums. If they do Joe Triana 22
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have something like that, the kids will enjoy it. Field trips like that to museums, kids will learn a lot. And I miss that. There’s a lot of culture up there, in that sense.
AR: How about public libraries?
JT: Oh, public libraries? You’re talking about New York Public Library, that’s one of the largest ones in the whole country. That’s incredible. I mean, you step through those doors and you look down and you go, Whoa, what’s this? In the time I lived, it wasn’t that big as New York City, I should say, but it was only about maybe ten minutes away on the bus. I had a public library that was only about two blocks away from the house, which was great. It was a small building, very nice building. Me, into architecture since back then, I always liked going there because it had this façade, it was beautiful, old type. And I used to go there for the projects, school projects, reading projects and all of that.
AR: Did you go there on your own like outside of school?
JT: Yeah, sure. Outside of school I was there on, not a daily basis, but I was there weekly doing a little reading. Sometimes I’d pick up a book and a couple of friends would come pick up books on automobiles, antique automobiles, or airplanes, kid stuff. And we would just sit out there and read the books. And they’ll take them home and read them. If I had a school project, like an essay or something like that, I would go over and pick up some material and that would cover it.
AR: That’s great. I’m trying to see if there’s anything else about your neighborhood that I want to ask, the neighborhood you grew up in. Were there neighborhood organizations that you remember when you grew up?
JT: Organizations like for kids? Like Boy Scouts and stuff like that? Or are you talking about the church I used to go to, St. Augustine Church? They used to have their organizations at the church, I used to go to that. I used to go to Sunday school [unclear] couple of years. Sunday school, they had their organizations and I always got involved. Joe Triana 23
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AR: What sort of activities did those organizations do?
JT: They had picnics. Charity work. I shouldn’t say dances, but little dances. Basketballs games, sports events, little sports events like that. That’s the work they used to do. Get everybody together and help out. Go to a particular area and clean up. Basically, that’s it. Selling drives, that’s how you call them? When I was a kid we had selling drives. I used to sell cookies. Used to go out and sell them. Donations for the church.
AR: Where do you live now? What neighborhood do you live in now?
JT: I live out in Hialeah. I like Hialeah because I live close to the race track. [Laughter] Not only that. It’s centrally located. That’s why I live up there. I take it for my job in the sense of transportation. From there, where I live at home, to when I used to work down here in Downtown, the Downtown police station was only fifteen minutes away. When I used to work at Flagler and Twenty-second in South District station that was only another fifteen minutes away. Now where I work out of Tropical Park, that’s where the office is at, where the barber(?) is at. It’s another maybe fifteen, twenty minutes away. The commuting time is great. Now I dread commuting on the highways. I don’t like rush hour. I get stuck in traffic. I guess as you get older your patience goes a little bit. But, that’s why I live up there. Hialeah, basically, where I live, the neighborhoods look like neighborhoods. Close-knit, again. The families have known each other for a long, long time. My parents bought the house on Seventy-seventh. I would live there on and off because I used to go out to the beach and I would stay at the beach, or I go room with somebody. But basically I am there at the house now. And it’s great. It’s still a lot of the old people. The old folks are still there. And the kids, some of them have gone and married and all that, or gone away for school. And it was a mix, back then. It was a mix. It was Americans and Cubans. But now as the years, the projects went by now it’s basically more Cubans. The influx, they came in the Eighties. They’re hardworking people, and it’s good. They’re family people. Now it’s nice because I have a daughter Joe Triana 24
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who’s five years old, and I see their kids too, the way they’re growing up also. And it’s great because they have a chance of experiencing something new. Down there, where they came from, is completely different. I’m saying in Cuba. When I was three years old I didn’t really recall that much, but I think back when I came here to the States. It’s not that easy but it’s a lot better off than the situation that most of the people are in now down there. But going back to the neighborhood, everybody is close-knit. They know each other. And the kids now, like I said, when I was young the parents of kids, You did something wrong. Now I’m in that, Hey come here, what are you doing, you shouldn’t be doing that. See what I mean? It all falls back into place in one way or another.
AR: So would you say it’s a good place to raise kids, the neighborhood you live in?
JT: In the neighborhood I live in, yes it is. I’m not going to say it’s one hundred percent good because we always look now. But, now that I have a daughter, a child, I would say I would also like the best for my child. The best education like everybody strives for when they have kids around. They like the best of everything for their child so they can progress more in life. [Unclear], better for life. But it’s good, hopefully it’ll get better. There’s always time for better education or a better place to live. You need to take it in stride. Take it little by little. You take what you can do for what you’re living for at the moment. You can’t assert yourself because if you assert yourself, you can’t deliver whatever you want at that particular time, and you have nothing to fall back on. You live at the level you’re at. You do the best you can. Like I said, you have kids, show them the best, the good and bad, hopefully everything works out, [unclear]. That’s good. The neighborhood I live in is good, I have no complaints. I said the race track and you laughed. Believe it or not, that’s one of the most beautiful and the oldest racetrack in the United States. And it’s a historical site now. And that’s one gorgeous place, I mean that is beautiful. I like going there.
AR: Could you describe it?
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JT: Sure, I’ll describe it. Even the entrance into the place is lined up with these Royal Palms. You don’t see them in many places. They’re huge, mammoth Royal Palms all lined up at the entrance. You go there, you see the track. It’s an old coral rock type of building which is beautiful. It was built back in the 1920s. Back then, that was the place to be in the 1920s, the Roaring Twenties, that era. You had everybody coming out: movie stars, gangsters, used to be a lot of gangsters back then. Everybody used to go there. The way they built it is incredible. The fountains that are in there, and the coral rock buildings, and the track itself, the flamingoes they got in there. Flamingo runs they’d call them, I don’t know which race it is but the flamingoes start flying and circling around the track and then they land back into the lake, there’s a lake right in the middle of the track. They land right back there. It’s great, it’s a beautiful place to pass a Sunday afternoon or Saturday afternoon. It’s really nice.
AR: So do you go there often?
JT: Not that often, not like I used to. Believe it or not, it’s right in the middle of the city and once you enter that entrance with those palm trees you feel like you’re completely in a different place. It’s tranquil, it’s incredible. You don’t even know that the area outside is the city because its lined up with all those beautiful palm trees, trees all around. It’s like you’re in another world. That’s the way it is. It’s a very interesting place.
AR: What else do you do for leisure, for fun? You and your family?
JT: For leisure, when I’m not working about eighty or a hundred hours a week, I like to sit down and read a book. I like reading. Listening to music. I like to listen to music, or watch a good movie on TV. Dedicating my lifetime to my daughter. The more time the better, but there’s some leisure time where I take her on a drive. I still like the beach. I go out to the beach every once in a while. Soak in some sun, do a little swimming out in the beach.
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AR: How is the beach compared to the beaches in New Jersey?
JT: Oh, the beaches down here are completely different. First thing is the water. The water’s great. It’s crystal clear down here, up there you don’t know what the heck you’re stepping in when you step in the water. When you step out of the water up there, your feet are all black tar. [Laughter] No, the beach is completely different. Water-wise, the ocean is completely different down here than up there.
AR: How about people-wise?
JT: People-wise. They’re friendly. But now you have, South Beach or the beaches here, the tourists. You have a lot of different tourists from different countries. They’re friendly. They just want to get to know how the area is. That’s why maybe they want to be friendly, so you can tell them how it is down here. And you talk to them. It’s not bad, it’s nice. It’s always good to have a good conversation. You learn.
AR: How about movies? Do you go to movies often?
JT: Not that often. I used to go to movies. I stopped going to movies because, believe it or not, I don’t like the aspects of the movie theaters.
AR: How so?
JT: You’ve got the kids and these gangs, and you’re just setting yourself up for trouble sometimes. You never know what might happen. Unfortunately, it’s a change of times. That’s the way it is. I don’t go to movies anymore.
AR: This is the neighborhood theaters?
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JT: Oh yeah, we had neighborhood theaters. Where I live there’s plenty of neighborhood theaters there. But like I said, like gangs and all that, you see the little gangs of kids and the juveniles. Nowadays, the mentality of these kids, I don’t know what it is. Private schooling(?), they’ve got to do something. They pick up, I guess a lot of these things they do now is either going back to the TV, or movies, or music. Unfortunately, that’s the way it happens. I don’t go out as much, in the sense of the movies, like I used to.
AR: How about television? Do you watch television? What do you watch?
JT: What do I watch on TV? Let’s see, I watch Kojak with my wife all the time. Just kidding. [Laughter] No, I like Kojak. To me, a good sport event. Like basketball games, like the Playoffs, the basketball game. Football season comes, you know, football game. Watch my cable if there’s a good movie. And my daughter she likes Cartoon Network, all those little goodie channels. She has a TV and her own cable in her room so she watches all that stuff. My favorite channel is the Discovery Channel, that’s the channel I like. Since I was young, I always liked the wildlife, you know, the shows of nature. I always liked those shows. I used to watch this show up north used to be called, uh, Wildlife of Mutual of Omaha or something like that. You ever seen that?
AR: Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom? With Marlin Perkins?
JT: Yes, that’s it. Thanks a lot, that’s the one. As a kid, I used to watch that a lot. It used to come on Sundays.
AR: Yeah, my dad and I used to watch that together.
JT: Yeah with the Lawrence Horse Show afterward. [Unclear].
AR: Well, let’s see. You have a daughter. Are you married?
JT: No. Unfortunately, no. I’m getting divorced now.
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AR: I’m sorry to hear that. I apologize. My questions are now all over the place as I’ve been flipping back and forth, so give me a moment here to regain my bearings. You mentioned youth gangs being at movie theaters. Would you say youth gangs are a problem in your neighborhood, or a problem in some of the neighborhoods you patrol? If you could be specific about where.
JT: There are problems all over the place. You’ve got them all over. They’re scattered all over. My neighborhood, not in the neighborhood that I live in, but the city that I live in, Hialeah, they have certain areas that are out there. Here in Miami, you have the certain areas that are out there. It’s all over. If you go to affluent neighborhoods like Coral Gables, they have their areas there also. They’re all over the place. [Unclear]. It’s been like that for a while. Some of the gangs, don’t get me wrong because I say gangs like when I used to be growing up, when I was young, I said gangs to you, I mentioned gangs. But our gangs were the gangs from the block. Like, Hey we’re going to play so-and-so gang from Forty-ninth street, we’re going to play baseball Saturday, or basketball. That’s our term of gang. And the worst that we did was a little push-shove match, a little black eye and that’s it. Call it off and that’s it, that’s the way it used to be. Not now, now you’ve got guns and knives, it’s worse. That’s the way it is. But they’re all over and I would say that some of them are more violent than others. Some of them want to be gang wannabes.
[Tape Breaks]
AR: This is Aldo Regalado at Lummus Park continuing the June 4th interview with Officer Joe Triana. This is the beginning of Tape Two. Okay, Officer Triana, I’ve asked you about your neighborhood experiences, your leisure experiences, your public space issues in terms of growing up and your own leisure time. Let’s talk a little bit about your politics and your community life. What is your political party affiliation?
JT: I’m a Republican. I really don’t get politics too much. Joe Triana 29
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AR: Why are you a Republican?
JT: Why am I a Republican? It used to be for the people, now they’re against the people. I don’t know. Politics for me, I don’t like it. It’s dirty. Politics for me is dirty. There are a few far-in-betweens which really come out and help and you have a politician that really would do the job. I would say most of them really are just out there doing la-la-la, rah-rah, this and that, next thing you know, whoever contributes the most, that’s who gains the most and from there on forget about everyone else. That’s fine because you have politicians that will help you. I’m basically not too much into politics. I’m affiliated with Republicans but I don’t even follow the issues.
AR: How do you think politicians in your neighborhood relate to the needs of the community, specifically in your neighborhood? Well also, politics in relation to the City of Miami since you work here.
JT: Okay. That’s not a good question. Where I live, Hialeah, we have a mayor, whose name is Martinez. He’s been there for a very long time. He’s been elected to office for several terms now. The man’s been elected there because he’s doing something good. And it’s true, I agree. Like I said, far-in-betweens. People who will help out the community. He’s one man that does it. City of Miami, don’t get me wrong, we’ve had our good mayors and we’ve had our bad mayors. I’m working here. I’m an employee of the city. This is my career here. And basically, I’ve liked some, I’ve disliked some. I’ve disagreed with some of the issues they’ve had because it affects everybody. Me, as an employee, it affects me too. Right now we have a mayor who’s pretty good. And the politicians here like commissioners and that, they help out. We have ones that weren’t that good, but now it seems like we have some that are good. I stand by that because this is my life, I work for the city. So far it’s working. It’s helping the community, they help the community. And they help the public service. The police department, fire department, Joe Triana 30
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and every other public service agency who’s out there. They’re out there to help, which is good. We were a couple of years under the rug, there. But now slowly we’re coming out again. It’s good, we’re seeing something. [Unclear] Did I answer your question?
AR: Yeah, you did. I want to return to some of your job experiences. We’ve talked a lot about your experience in this neighborhood. When you didn’t work mounted police, when you worked on the beat, what neighborhoods did you primarily work in?
JT: Basically, I worked the Little Havana area. I spent most of my years there in Little Havana. You know, [unclear] not in Cuba. The language barrier is no problem. Even though you’ve got to be able to speak English, it’s behind the job. But still, you have some officers who don’t speak Spanish. [Unclear] they could be in Little Haiti, which they have, and sometimes I would have problems. And I feel how some of those officers that worked in my area feel. I didn’t know how to speak Creole. Sometimes, a little French and Spanish talk to them, communicate in sign language, but I got through. Primarily, I worked in Little Havana for most of my patrol, street patrol.
AR: How would you describe Little Havana as a neighborhood or as a community?
JT: Well, over the year it changed. We had the influx of the 1980s, the Mariel Boatlift. We have a lot of people that came on that boatlift. Not most of them, but a lot of them were criminals, because Fidel Castro, there, he took the opportunity, he went to the jails and he emptied out the jails. The people who went down there to pick up the families said, Hey look if you don’t take these ten or twenty people on your boat your family is not going. They were bringing on the boat who knows what. There were criminals and mental cases, right out of the mental hospitals. He was clearing out everybody. The dirt was taken out of this country and just sending it over here. So they would end up over here because down there the only place they know is Miami. That’s their first stop. So you can imagine, we have these hardcore criminals that make believe they were harmless, Joe Triana 31
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political prisoners was the term they used, but in actuality they were a whole bunch of hardcore criminals down there: murderers, rapists, and all sorts of thing. And they would come on and they would infiltrate here. And then slowly as they were getting to know how the system worked here, they would take advantage of the system, and then they would go do their own things, drug dealers and all that. But as the years went by working there, either they killed themselves off or they moved out. That’s the way it worked out. Back then we used to have, what are called emergency calls, with the lights and sirens on; every five minutes we would go to a shooting or stabbing or that sort of thing. And it involved, mostly, that kind of particular person. You could see it. Most of those people, you could see they went to jail because when you look at their bodies, they were like a newspaper on their bodies of tattoos. They have all sorts of things. They have life stories written down on their arms, from being in jail. As years went by, some of them got to know the system. Some of them changed for good, found themselves a job, lived a decent life, changed the way they were. And basically, years extended, I see the change and gradually you have a little bit of everything. You have a mix of everything in Little Havana. You have some upper class neighborhoods, middle class neighborhoods, and you have some low income areas. That’s part of the city. We’re becoming a big city. Miami, a lot of people are moving down here, it’s becoming a big city and that’s the way it is. Big cities have problems. We’ve got all sorts of people in Miami and all sorts of problems.
AR: Do you have a sense of what the biggest problems are in Little Havana right now?
JT: Right now, the biggest problems, I would say, it’s not drugs. Surprisingly, no, because it’s gone down. There’s been a change. They moved down or they said, Hey let me change my ways and work or something like that. But, you have your crime. You have your burglaries and your robberies and all that, but it doesn’t compare. You have a little bit of everything like any other big city. No major problems, like anywhere else.
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AR: Little Havana has also changed a lot in terms of the nationality of the people that are moving in now. It’s a lot more diverse now. It’s not just Cuban. How would you say that has impacted on the society?
JT: Like in the mid-Eighties you have Central America, you had the conference there. Nicaragua, El Salvador, and all those other countries and they started moving in. And they’re still moving in here. [Unclear] getting people from South America. Pretty soon we’re going to have a big Columbian community here, which we had already, but we’re going to have a bigger Venezuelan because of things going down in the country. They impact us culturally. That’s the good thing about culture, because you learn more about them. You learn how they are, which is good. But sometimes the mix of all those people, they bring over the people who are not, I would say, progress or the well-to-do of the country: teachers, or medical professors, professionals. I would say, [unclear] bring the people who can’t survive there, who couldn’t do anything. Those are the people that come over here. You have your criminal elements that would come here. That’s what happens. They’re just bringing over their cultures. And they’re all different because in Central America, their type of lifestyle is really, educational-wise, not so much education. Farm people and all that. What they do is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, they’ll be drinking on the corner. They bring that custom over here and then we have to adjust to that and tell them, Hey you can’t drink twenty-four hours a day the whole weekend, it doesn’t work here. Maybe in your country you can do it, but not here. Or beating up the wife. It’s a custom. They get a little bit out of hand, the wife gets a little bit out of hand, you smack her a couple of times. But, hey, you’ve got to adjust to the laws here, you just can’t go around beating your wife. It doesn’t work that way. It’s different here. You come from a different country, but it’s different here. You get in trouble for that. We explain it to them. And each culture brings their thing.
AR: What are some of the specific cultural characteristics in terms of positive contributions and negative contributions that you see different groups coming in? Joe Triana 33
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JT: I touch on, like I say always, the good thing about different cultures coming in here is learning the way of the lifestyle. The simple things like their music, their food. Because when you have a festival here, like a Columbian festival, Nicaraguan festival, Jamaican festival, they bring in their music, they bring in their food, the dress, the way they dress. That’s brining in the culture, that’s the good thing. That’s the insight. The bad part about that is like I just explained to you. Their laws are different than our laws here, talking about laws. Maybe you don’t see it, but we do because we deal with it. It’s the way they carry themselves and their family. The way they discipline their kids or they discipline their wife or whatever, the way they act in that sense.
AR: Which nationalities would you say have a harder time assimilating or integrating?
JT: Right now, we’ve got Mexicans over here. A lot of the people that come over here don’t have papers. Mexicans, Central Americans, we’re talking about Nicaraguans, El Salvadorians, Panamanians, Columbians, Venezuelans. What is difficult—excuse me, let me adjust myself. What was the question?
AR: Which groups do you think have a harder time assimilating?
JT: Which group? In particular which group?
AR: Yeah.
JT: You know, I really can’t say which group. I’d say all of them, because it’s all new to them. In particular not one group is better than the other one anyways. It’s all of them. They’re all human and they come here. I see, in a sense, they’re brought up one way then they have to adjust and learn another system. It’s difficult on all of them.
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AR: Do you see people coming to Miami and then staying splintered or do think that people come to Miami and tend to gel into a Hispanic or a Latin-American [group]?
JT: Well, there’s the people who have more education. Those are the people who blend in and fit into the system, find a new job, do this and that, because they have a higher educational background than the other people. You get a farm worker that comes here, what the heck do you do? He only knows how to do farming. He’s not going to survive here. How is he going to blend in with the other people? That’s when you have your conflict with the other people. You can’t work with the system. Unfortunately, he’s isolated in some way and that’s when you have your problems with that individual person. That’s the one you see normally standing on the corner drinking. Or maybe the drugs [unclear], you know, that’s where they get involved with drugs. That’s the way—my experience with it.
AR: I guess I was wondering if, um, let’s say you have those elements that don’t fit in. You have Nicaraguan elements that don’t fit in, or Venezuelan. Those elements that don’t fit in, do you see them staying as distinct groups or do they gel—?
JT: Let me get back to that question, I guess I never answered it correctly. Let’s see, do they gel? That’s what I said about education. That they gel into them because they’re more equipped, or better prepared to confront whatever is put against them here. Maybe that’s the gel. Those are the ones that gel. The ones that don’t split there cannot. They’re the ones that their country, might come from the countryside, lower class, they just come here because they figure a better chance economically-wise, they come here. But, they really don’t know what they’re getting themselves into because the first thing they have to know is the language. A lot of them maybe don’t even know how to read and write. They figure here to get a job you have to first speak the language, you have a lot of things, and it doesn’t work out for them. And all they do is they come here and they send them out to pick fruits out there for three dollars an hour or something like that. If they Joe Triana 35
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don’t spend a living, they’ll move somewhere else. In fact, they won’t stay here in Miami, they might move up to New York. If they don’t go to New York, they might go to California, or they might go to Texas, or the Midwest. So, it’s like a cycle. In reality, it’s not only here, it goes all over with these individuals. Going back to Mariel, Mariel’s [unclear] moved down. I met some of those guys at Mariel, they did more traveling than I did around here in the United States. Have you ever been to here? I was over here a month ago. He went across the nation to the other side of the nation in less than two months and lived there and went back and forth all over the place. That’s the way it is. I guess it’s the way, in their country, the way the culture is, which is completely different. It’s a culture shock. So that’s why gelling, like you say, the ones that are better educated or more aware of what they’re heading for are better equipped to confront whatever is ahead.
AR: Do you think Little Havana is as tight-knit as Hialeah or, say, even Union City when you were growing up, or do you think it’s a more fragmented community?
JT: Fragmented. Because I’ll tell you something, back then when the Cubans came, when they were settling up north. [Unclear] Union City because, we started talking about the conflicts. They didn’t know what kind of class of people we were. It was very difficult for the people that came there for the first time. Because of the language [unclear]. I remember my father when we used to go rent an apartment. They have For Rent there. He would go there and he would go talk to the landlady and she would be from a European background or whatever. She would say, No, it’s already rented, take the For Rent sign off the window, next thing you know two days go by, you pass by and the For Rent sign is still there. That happened to a lot of Latin people, Cuban people, that went up there back in those days. So, now I guess it’s the same thing, almost. Because you don’t know how these people portray themselves. Their culture is completely different. You hear, I shouldn’t say you hear, but you see a lot of this. That’s why a lot of these people get isolated and they don’t give it a chance. [Unclear]. Like I said, compared to up in Union Joe Triana 36
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City, the time back then when I was growing up, to now it’s completely, I shouldn’t say different. It’s almost the same.
AR: So you feel that people coming in now are having to face these problems and discriminations?
JT: I had to go through the same thing. I had to face the same thing.
AR: Do you remember any other incidents growing up that are strong in your mind of feeling discrimination personally or seeing your parents discriminated against?
JT: Back then, like I said, when we were up there, the language barrier. We didn’t speak English. You go to a place and you don’t speak English and they would look at you [scoff] and continue.
AR: And you experienced that a lot?
JT: I was young, but I could see it. Not only with my parents, but I would see it with older people, I used to go to school with(?). I’d see older Cubans [unclear]. And now it’s basically the same thing. These people they’re coming over, and unfortunately, it’s like that. Like I said, you’ve got to get yourself used to a new system, you’re prepared, you’re welcome. That’s the way it is.
AR: You said your family and other Cubans were stigmatized coming to the country, did you sense that that stigma changed as time went on, as you spent longer in the country?
JT: It changed because they’d see what kind of people we were. That’s what I said when I told you about the neighborhood I grew up in, the kind of people. We were accepted because they saw what kind of people we were. That’s the way it is. Gradually, they see Joe Triana 37
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how you are. Like I said, I gave you an example of being a drunk twenty four hours a day and a family who works twenty four hours a day and they see it’s a good respectable family, who they choose or who they didn’t choose, necessarily. I don’t think it’s like that.
AR: Would it be fair to say that you have these two issues, class and race, do you think it’s fair to say, then, that you believe that class outweighs race in terms of the way people perceive others? That if you’re a particular race but you’ve fit into to a certain class, you comport yourself in a certain way that you can overcome the race problem easier?
JT: It’s a combination of race and class. It’s a little combination. It has to with the way you portray yourself. [Unclear] Say you have an Anglo over there, blue eyes, and a black man over here. You see, that guy there is no good just because he’s black. [unclear] without seeing what kind of person he is, hardworking and all that. It’s a little combination of both. That’s the way the cultures, too. Other cultures are developed more than other cultures, other countries are developed more than other countries. You have a Third World country compared to the United States. Sure enough, if you grew up here, you went to a school system here, you have kids or whatever, you’re not going to move to a Third World country because you don’t know what a third world country is going to be like. The kids are not going to get the same education as you get here. You’re not going to have the same living as you have here.
AR: I guess we could go to conclusions then. Do you feel there are enough public spaces: parks, beaches, museums, etc. in your neighborhood and your community? And I guess we can talk about two separate communities. I’d say one, Hialeah the community you live in and two, the community you work in.
JT: Believe it or not, both of them are great. I could talk for both cities. They have many pools and parks. The county, they have allotted areas for parks because they know, Joe Triana 38
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people, you have families and kids that need parks for recreation. Pools for recreation, too because down here, you’re talking about climate-wise, the climate. Summertime, you’re surrounded by water. You need pools down here. Now, compared to where I grew up north, we didn’t have sufficient pools. The only pool I talked to you about is the pool up in Bear Mountain. And then we used to have a pool, I remember the other city was Hoboken. The YMCA in Hoboken, it was a beautiful pool, mineral water, it was beautiful. Parks up there, up there weren’t that many parks. (22:30)