Interview with Raisa Fernandez

              Special Collections
Public Spaces in Miami: An Oral History Project
Interview with Raisa Fernandez
Miami, Florida, June 1st 1999
Interview IPH-0030
Interviewed by Aldo Regalado
Recorded by Aldo Regalado
Summary: This interview with Raisa Fernandez was conducted in June 1999. Ms. Fernandez is a school bus driver in Little Havana and daughter of Cuban exiles. This interview focuses on Ms. Fernandez’s perceptions of public space, and the needs of Little Havana as a neighborhood.
This interview forms part of the Institute for Public History (IPH) Oral History Collection, directed by Professor Gregg Bush from the History Department and curated by the University of Miami Libraries Special Collections.
Copyright to this interview lies with the University of Miami. The interview recordings or transcript may not be reproduced, retransmitted, published, distributed, or broadcast without the permission of the Special Collections. For information about obtaining copies or to request permission to publish any part of this interview, please contact Special Collections at asc@miami.edu.
1300 Memorial Drive, Coral Gables, FL 33124-0320 * 305-284-3580 * 305-284-4901 faxRaisa Fernandez
June 1st, 1999
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Aldo Regalado: This is Aldo Regalado. We’re doing an interview with Raisa Fernandez at her home on June 1st, 1999 - OK, Raisa, when and where were your parents born; just to get an early sense of where you come from?
Raisa Fernandez: OK, well, both parents were born in Cuba.
AR: And when?
RF: Well, my father was born in - should I say the month and all that?
AR: No, you can just –
RF: He was born in 1924 in Cuba, and my mother was born also in 1925 in a little town, it’s west of Havana. It’s Bainor, it’s…very farm, you know. I’ve been there.
AR: So what were their occupations?
RF: Well, my father was a student. He lost his father when he was seventeen. And he wanted to be a pilot, but his family from his parent’s side, his uncles, basically wanted him to be a doctor because they were all doctors, most of them were doctors. And, my - his mother, my father’s mother, came from a [poorer] more poor family, unlike my father’s, were a more, you know, affluent family. So they were always against her marriage, my grandmother and my grandparents’ marriage. He was ten years older than my grandmother, so - but they fell in love and they married, you know, so - My grandfather died when he was forty-seven, my father was only seventeen, so there was always that thing, you know, so - they wanted to help my father growing up, but he wanted to be a pilot and he, they wanted him to study medicine. So, it was that. So my father was studying in a Catholic School, Los Marjitas, but he rebelled against the Catholic Church. He rebelled because he felt that, you know, he - several times he went Raisa Fernandez
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to the priest, the head person, you know, and asked him why people were out sleeping on the doorsteps while it was cold and raining and they couldn’t go inside the church. It was the church of, you know, it was a place for everyone to be. So he rebelled against the Catholic Church. So, where a place where he even stole from his father to give to the church, I mean money, you know, like change or whatever, he would, cause [because] - I can’t say this word in English: monagillo - almost like an assistant to the priest. So, other times he would argue why, you know, a person would have to come in through the back just because he couldn’t pay the fees for the church, you know the school. Another would come through the front door. And he rebelled. He is non- uh, non-religious, so my mother was, you know. And they married. Is that it, am I talking too much?
AR: No, no - go ahead.
RF: Oh, ‘cause [because] you asked me only where were they born, right?
AR: Well, like I said, if you want to go beyond the questions, feel free, yeah.
RF: Oh, no, but I just, you know. I don’t want to go on too much and – so
AR: Well, if you want, we can move on. Were you born in Cuba as well?
RF: Yes, I was born in Cuba. I was born in January 5th, 1954, and January 5th, I don’t know if you know, for the Latino or for the Hispanic community, is the day before Los Reyes Magos. So, I was like, kind of a gift to them. They always say that, you know. So I was born in Marianal, in ( ) in Havana. But they were married and lived in Guanabo Beach, which is a beach just east of Havana. And so, I was raised there until I was eight.
AR: And then? Raisa Fernandez
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RF: And I came here - my mother came first. I have two brothers and one is older, one year older, and the other one is eleven months younger than me - than I. And, so they came first with my mother and a month and a half later my father and I were given permission to leave the country.
AR: So, how would you describe your childhood - your relationship with your mother and your father, you know - their marriage? And how do you feel that your family life impacted the way you view the world or see things?
RF: [Pause] Oh, my childhood there was, I have, I think a kind of a mental block. I only remember, um, you know, some of the time – (phone rings)
AR: So you were saying you have kind of a mental block about childhood in Cuba.
RF: Yeah, I was only eight years old in Cuba, so. You know, I remember [pause] I don’t even remember, you know. I have friends, you know, they say I was - I had crushes on this guy used to - I was only eight years old and I had crushes on this kid that lived, you know, next door, or on the other block or something, but I don’t remember. I just - I just remember, barely remember, ‘cause [because] my father was in jail in 1961 - things like that. So –
AR: For political reasons?
RF: Yeah, for political reasons -to, you know, ‘cause [because] he fought against the Batista regime and he had to flee in 1959, you know, to come here, because when he was in jail - just a couple of hours with Batista, but they told him: “OK, you’re getting out, but you have to leave the country.” So when Fidel took over - Fidel, the Revolution, you know. (knock on door)
RF: OK, so I was telling you that, you know, I was there only eight years and, I remember mostly what my parents tell me, how we were, or we enjoyed a nice, you know Raisa Fernandez
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- we lived in the beach in Guanabo Beach - very nice, you know, and I remember riding a lot of horses, ‘cause [because] there was a rental, you know, horses, and my father used to, you know, rent us horses. Uh, schooling I had, you know, very little because of the bombing during Batista and my parents were afraid, you know. I went to a - I think I went to public school. We weren’t very affluent, but my father, later on, got a job with - during the first years of the Revolution - he got a job with Obras Públicas in Varadero, so he was like the head, you know, of the Public Works or something like that, you know. It translated Public Works and, but before that he had to do different odd jobs because he wouldn’t sign the – [with] when Batista - he wouldn’t sign the Constitution so he had to leave the job he was with, you know, in. And, um, mostly he was involved in politics, since he was seventeen years old. You know, Cuba, you know, was in - prior to the Revolution - there was a lot of conflict, although there was some period where it was good, like my mother said that when, I think when Grau San Martín or something, she was Grauista or something like that, and they were very happy when Grau San Martín took, uh, office. And, then, after that, they were always, you know - there was always conflict, you know. And, but one of the things I know [was] that my parents never wanted to leave Cuba for any reason, like, to visit any other - Florida or visit - they wanted to - Cuba was it for them. Uh, so, um, you know my father was in jail for four months, he had a hearing - you know, a Revolutionary hearing - and so he was acquitted with the charges that he was charged with, he was, you know, set free after four months and then, there, uh, I was told he was still semi-in-hiding, you know, ‘cause [because] - and so then, they took all the papers to, to, to leave, ‘cause [because] my father thought then, if you talk to him now, it’s different, and you know, I - he thought that the best thing - cause he was offered a good position not to leave Cuba - uh, he was offered, you know, a house in Baradero, he was offered many things. My mother was offered - she was a telephone operator- and she was offered a high position, you know the president or the head - you know, the director of the Telephone Company in Havana and all that - but my father’s principles are, you know, so that he refused. And everyone in my father’s side, and his parent’s side, you know, are, you know, with Fidel, you know, revolutionary. We have doctors and all that. He was the only one, you know, besides his brother that came here before Fidel, you know he didn’t have no politics in his…blood Raisa Fernandez
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and my, his mother, my grandmother that immigrated to the United States, she lived in Hoboken, uh before the ‘50s, before my father got married, ‘cause [because] my, [my] grandmother came from New York to Cuba for my father’s wedding in 1950 - so and, that’s what I remember, also, my grandmother coming every summer to Guanabo from New York and visiting us and you know, going early in the morning to the beach with her - things like that. It was not a, you know, a - I don’t remember anything awful. You know what I’m saying?
AR: Yeah.
RF: Although I don’t remember playing with my brothers - I don’t remember that. There’s a block. I don’t know why there’s a block, or is it just because I was too young, or, I don’t know –
AR: So you don’t remember - um –
RF: I don’t remember enjoying, you know, playing with my brothers. I don’t remember. I’ve seen pictures, pictures I have where I see myself, you know, with my cowboy- you know – outfit and, ‘cause [because] I was kind of a tomboy. You know, raised between two boys, you know doing everything with boys and boys and so, I had my cowboy hat and my, [my], my pistols and, you know, I had a doll next door, but I had my –
AR: I would love to see those pictures.
RF: I have them. I have them. And, you know (…) this is my father’s side, and this is my mother and her old - in her town, in Campo Florido, which is like, I don’t know if you visited Cuba –
AR: No. Raisa Fernandez
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RF: But I have pictures like that of me dressed like a “cobero”.
AR: You have pictures of the beach as well?
RF: Oh, Guanabo Beach! I have a lot of them. It’s all over – Oh, here’s one here. This is my house where I lived. As you can see, that’s my mother [in] one of the pictures. That’s, you know, that’s Pinta Venida which is the central part in Guanabo Beach. Pinta Venida. And –
AR: So was it the type of neighborhood where there were a lot of, a lot of - uh, I guess you said you didn’t remember, but do you at all remember a lot of people or what types of people lived in the neighborhood, or you don’t remember or have those impressions?—
RF: Just common people. Very, very ordinary. We didn’t live in any residential or anything like that. You know, there was some in the upper high that, you know, had big homes and things like that, but we had a, a small house. My father rented. And you know, on the beach, ‘cause [because] he wanted to be, you know, he liked it there for kids to be raised. That’s why I guess he, when he came, you know, he left Cuba, he came to Miami, ‘cause [because], you know, my mother said that she thought “Oh, my God! I’m here in Guanabo Beach, and you know, I have pants, and I have, you know, like a beach. And what, you know, Miami. I don’t know if I can dress with, with pants and things like that.” But when she saw it she said “Oh, I’m so glad, ‘cause [because] I’m like, it’s like Guanabo, you know. It’s kind of like Guanabo ‘cause [because] they, the beach close by and so he never wanted to move from Miami, you know. He tried going up north in New York and when he saw the people, that they wouldn’t want to talk Spanish, he said “Oh, this is not for me.” You know. “I am…” This is 1962 -63, and he tried speaking Spanish and someone said, “Oh, no, no, no, no, don’t speak Spanish, ‘cause [because], you know, this is - It’s bad.” So, he, said, “No, no. I stay in Miami. It’s close to Cuba. It’s --- Raisa Fernandez
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AR: How ‘bout - Do you remember anything about the ethnic diversity or lack of diversity in Guanabo. I would assume - Cuba’s very different from here, so I assume it was pretty integrated in terms of -
RF: No, back then it wasn’t integrated. It was mostly - You know, you had some black families, but not where I lived. I don’t think. Not like now. You know. I’ve been to Cuba, after ’79. And, uh, you know, now it’s I know there’s - it wasn’t like it is now where there could be a black family living next to you, or, normally, you know, you see black kids, ‘cause [because] I have movies from Cuba, and you can see them in school - it’s integrated. You know. I have pictures from my, from my, I think I have pictures from when I went to school and you can see all the kids and I’m not able to see any black kids. Hold on for a sec.
AR: Sure thing.
RF: Let’s see if I have the pictures right here. And I have some pictures I took from my parent’s house. And it showed ( )—my diploma – I think it’s here. I can find you more pictures but right now, you know, we don’t have much time and –
AR: Yeah.
RF: OK. This. This is me.
AR: Oh, wow.
RF: Luz Caballero-- I don’t know if it was a private school, Luz Caballero. That’s me. And that’s my oldest brother. See it says Curso ’58 -’59. ‘58-’59. You see?
AR: Wow. These are great. Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Uh-hmm. So you can see the make-up. Now if you get a picture from Cuba, from a school, you can see the diversity. I can show you, I have three video - video - from Cuba, the last time I went in 19 uh, was it ’94 or ’95. One of them I took a video camera and, first time, I was, I was, well, should I do it, ‘cause [because] you know, I’ve been to Cuba from ’79 and ’79 is much different than now, you know, I wouldn’t think of - going with a video camera back in ’79. I mean- It was my first time going and things like that. But then, I just want to say, my brother says “Take it. You know, take the camera. You know, so you can, take movies.” And when I got off the plane, I took my son with me that [it] was [in] ’95. I took my son with me, my youngest son. He’d never been there. Nine years old. And when I got off the plane, I just started filming him and his grandmother came with us - his great grandmother came with us, my husband’s grandmother. That came from Mariel. My husband picked her up in Mariel - she’d never been back. So I took her. And I started filming. And then in Guanabo Beach, I wanted my son to see the school close by, and I said “Let’s go honey. Let’s go, you know, see the school.” And we were walking, and it was early in the morning and you can see in my video I was talking. I said: “Isn’t it beautiful. You know. Those kids are walking by themself [themselves].(sic) You can see little kids, you know, seven, six, eight and whatever, you know, walking by the sidewalk, some of them had their mothers with them, some of them were by themself [themselves].(sic) You know, you can seem [see] them going by themself [themselves] (sic) to school and, you know, I say “To us, here it would be, you know, we wouldn’t think of letting our kids go walking, you know. – It wasn’t far, but some of the kids, I don’t know where they lived, but, um. So I went in with a video camera, there [were] was the kids in line, and you know, they were wanting me to film them, so I asked permission, I said “Are you the director?” And she said “I’m here.” And I said “Well, you know, I’m visiting and I wanted my son to see the school and things like that, do you think that you don’t mind me filming some of the school?” And she says “Noo!” And so she took me to a third grade class and I filmed and they spoke there and everything. So you can see the diversity, you know. So. Talking back to, where you asked me whether I remember whether there were- if I had black friends and things like that - I don’t remember having any black friends. You know. Though I hear from my Raisa Fernandez
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parents that there was a lot of, segregation, you know. There was a private club in Havana which did not admit, and my father had black friends, and my mother had like a gay friend - and you would think of having – that was a taboo. And she, she was very nice. We have her in pictures. She passed away here. And, my mother’s sister, her husband - her boyfriend then - her husband- wouldn’t think of her - my aunt - coming to our house because my mother had that friend, you know. She was in closet. She was not out of the closet. You know what I’m saying. But they knew.
AR: Yeah.
RF: Hold on.
AR: Sure thing. (pause)
RF: So, uh, you know. My parents were more, I guess, open. Open to - you know - my father had black friends. And, you know, not a real lot of friends. But he mentioned the fact and he - since he was young - he, you know, it was his interest - you know - social. You know. He was very into the social issue, ‘cause [because] he rebelled against the Catholic Church and he rebelled against something that he, since he was young, he was in Los Marjitas, which is private, I think it was in Camagüey. He lived in Camagüey and Santa Clara. And it was not a likely thing, you know, to rebel and to - and, you know, so socially my father’s idea was, you know, that there should be the social issue in Cuba had to change –
AR: In terms of --?
RF: In terms of - everything. In terms of everything. You know. Um, I guess everything, ‘cause [because], since he was young. That’s what he believed in.
AR: What do you think made him so unique, I mean, because as you said, it’s kind of unique in that way - Is it just his personality? Is it, uh, the way – Raisa Fernandez
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RF: The way he was raised? I don’t know. I’m not sure. And my mother, you know, she adapted to him so well, it’s this chemistry. She was sixteen when she met him. They were in, you know, they were dating for eight years, if you want to call it dating back then. He was, I guess she was too young, you know she was sixteen and he was too much involved in politics. You know, he was very young. I don’t know. I guess during that time, the thirties, who was there…it was Machado, Batista, but, uh, I know that he - you know. So, they had this chemistry together. You can see the pictures. There are so many pictures around here, I don’t have to - and there’s no time right now, and I don’t want to take up you know, more time. But if you see him in Havana, the club - you know, like, my mother would sit and there’s a picture - I don’t know who would take all these pictures of my father and my mother - ‘cause [because] there’s so many. And I would say “You know, why are there so many pictures - beautiful pictures - and I meant to ask him. You know, “Who would take all those pictures all the time.” You know, that’s me - That’s them in Havana. So, there’s many. I cannot tell you how many. He, he. That’s them on the beach. They were married then. In Guanabo. That’s my - that’s me. That’s my mother – pregnant, and there’s [are] some other pictures there. But they have so many pictures, you know, I don’t know. I haven’t asked them, you know, “Do you take them, do you have friends- ‘cause [because] he had a lot of friends, I know that. You know he would mention that he had a lot of fights because of my mother, you know, because she, not just because she was my mother, but, she was quite beautiful. So he said sometime they would be walking, the girls in the front and them in the back and, a guy came to my mother, because my mother had beautiful long braids, and he would say Oh, ( ) “Like, oh please, if you ever cut your hair, give me a little piece of your hair.” And my father heard that and he started banging the guy, and then the friends started banging on top of each other and finally it’s like that - and so, and uh, yeah, so….
AR: OK, well, uh. Just a couple more questions about - and again I know you have very, very vague memories, but if any of this jogs something - uh about neighbors, or how you related to neighbors, or whether - yeah. Do you remember any neighbors?
RF: We had some neighbors. And some of them are here. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: So was it a close relationship with your neighbors would you say or was it a? ---
RF: It was mostly – It was mostly my grandmother. My grandmother on my mother’s side, she lived with us during those years from, I guess, you know, ’57 through ’62 when I left. And, you know, I was always, because my father was working in Badadero and there was always the problem, you know, with the, you know, doing things against the Batista regime, and things like that. They were in hiding and so – you know, I don’t have - you know, my memories, some of them is like, one, one three o’clock in the morning or something like that, my father and my mother we were all rushed outside, you know, the security police came and, you know, took us outside the house and, you know, my father was in his underwear and things like that. And, you know, things like that I remember. And, you know, going to - when he was jailed, you know, in 1961, and he was in La Cabana where I visited him and he said that I would just run and take things into the - you know - cell house or whatever, cell, and uh, see him, and you know. That’s -- I don’t have any. I have very vague memory, you know, from –
AR: So, it sounds like most of the - if any instability, it seems more political and um--
RF: It wasn’t - we weren’t affected that much by - you know - we weren’t affected ‘cause [because] we were protected by my grandmother. You know. And my parents, they were, you know - he was out of the house a lot of the time, and uh, we were not affected, you know. We were there so few years, you know. Uh – I was born in ’54 and uh, you know and we, I don’t know.
AR: What did you do, what did you do for, do you remember what you did for fun there? You mentioned horseback riding --
RF: Horseback riding, and playing with my brothers and going to some school that I went to - you know, and walking around I guess. And I guess – Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Do you remember anything about carnivals or festivals or anything like that? Or nothing like that?
RF: No, no, no. We were not into that, because during that period of time, [it] there was not a good period for my parents.
AR: Yeah.
RF: You know what I’m saying?
AR: In terms of the –
RF: The political situation - no.
AR: The political situation, sure.
RF: [There] It was a lot of killing going on and my parents were not, you know, into any kind ( ), you know, during that time.
AR: So it was mostly home-based?
RF: Yeah, and after we were born I guess it’s, you know, raising three kids, you know, almost in two years having three kids, my mother - my father used to tell her, uh, you know, one child takes 24 hours, two and three cannot take more than 24 hours ‘cause [because] the day has only 24 hours, so, you know. That’s one thing he helped my mother in pretty much whatever he could. But, uh, now, he’s a good father, and he raised us good here. He did what he could. He was too much involved in politics here, and he didn’t gain, you know, not because he gained any - publicity, or anything, ‘cause [because] he’s not into, you know, any publicity here or anything like that - but he maintained his attitudes and his morals and, you know, and taught us - that. And at home we should speak Spanish and in school English. And, uh, that’s uh, maybe why I haven’t Raisa Fernandez
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lost my, uh, Spanish, although my Spanish is not very good, but, I have maintained my Spanish. I try to do the same to my kids, you know, have them speak Spanish and English and whatever other languages they want to learn. I’m not, um ---
AR: Well, that covers; I think, you know, the part, your life in Cuba, um, pretty well. You mentioned it before, but what year again, did you come to Miami?
RF: I came in the 15th, July 15th, 1962.
AR: ‘62
RF: ’62.
AR: And, um, obviously why you came would be the political situation –
RF: Well, I came because my parents - you know I came –
AR: And the move was motivated, for him, by political reasons?
RF: Oh, yes, it was, no, no economic or anything like that. It was not economic. It was political motivated. He thought that. He thinks - he thought, ‘cause [because] I don’t think, he just mentioned the other day that, you know, that, that um, that there were some mistakes and that he wouldn’t have done it—
AR: What sort of mistakes? You mentioned that earlier –
RF: Mistakes!—
AR: -That earlier that he, um, that if you talked to him now, it would be very different.
RF: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, he, you know, he feels that his place was in Cuba. And – Raisa Fernandez
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AR: That he should have stayed?
RF: That he should have stayed. My parents, both of them. Not because they, they admired the Revolution, because they fought against Fidel. I mean, you know, he, but he says that they haven’t adapted here. They’re 75 and 73 and – you know, they say that they haven’t adapted, that, they all, that the only thing they think about is Cuba. You know. And, you know, they have, they thank, you know, being able to come here when they, they needed to escape, you know, ‘cause [because] they felt that, you know, we shouldn’t be raised in, uh, whatever they thought it was going to be, you know, ‘cause [because] my father was young, my father was 37 and---
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1]
[TAPE 1, SIDE 2]
AR: So, yeah –
RF: So he just the other - yesterday I think or the day before yesterday he was talking to a friend of ours that came in December. He’s a doctor, his wife’s a designer and all that, and he said that he would have not left Cuba. And I mean, he was, that he was stupid. It was stupid because he should have stayed there and he thought ---
AR: --Was it thinking about Cuba or was it like the way it was here?
RF: No, it was – the way things, the outcome of Cuba. You know, the outcome, that he sees, is not, you know, some things are not good, but other things are good. And, he says that, I guess, other than you were being, you know, I don’t know. It’s just that he thinks we would be better off being raised in Cuba, as Cubans. It sounds stupid or not?
AR: No.
RF: And – Raisa Fernandez
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AR: I’m actually really curious to know maybe if he --
RF: There’s a lot of people, there’s a lot of people who think like that now.
AR: Yeah.
RF: Older Cubans, that think differently about, you know, what the Revolution meant to them then and means to them now. And they’re not interested in [anything] nothing. I mean, they’re not, like, you know, it’s not that they’re Fidelistas. You know what I’m saying. They’re not.
AR: Yeah.
RF: ‘cause [because] my father is not a “Fidelista”. But I know that he has mentioned the fact that, it’s better off - Cuba - with Fidel, than with the United States.
AR: Right.
RF: I don’t know if you understand.
AR: I think I do. I think I do. Well, um—
RF: There’s [are] a lot of things. There’s [are] a lot of heavy - things - when he says that.
AR: Yeah.
RF: ‘cause [because] I –
AR: Well, no, as I say. I think I understand in general principles, but could you elaborate on that, or on, specifically what - you know, you mention that he says some Raisa Fernandez
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things are good and some things are bad – well what is good and what is bad and how does America enter into?---
RF: Well, you would have to talk to him.
AR: Yeah.
RF: ‘cause [because] I’m not inside his mind. Although I was raised here with a lot of politicians, you know, like old, you know like his, you know, people that came from Cuba and we had, they had meetings, constantly in my home. So I was raised in that atmosphere of politicians. That’s why maybe I have such a, you know, stand for being active and things like that, but you would have to talk to him. I mean, the only thing I could imagine when he says those things, you know, that he has changed his, you know, his attitude and his, way of thinking, you know. And things that [have] has happened here in Miami, in reference to Cuba and how people perceived and how people, like some Cubans, um – maintained their position in favor of the embargo and how people do not see more than what actually Fidel, you know, I guess, what Fidel has done for Cuba. In a way --- I don’t know if you understand. Uh—you know. I do not - I do not blame anyone for me being here. You know. There was a period of history a [period] - you know history, and history, you know, was made. And some people lost, some people gained. You know. Some people lost things, but other people gained. People that were not, had anything, gained something. That’s what I’m saying.
AR: Yeah.
RF: And, you know, when like, I talk to some family members over there, that were very poor and he says, “Well, let me tell you. I’m not a Communist, but back then, uh, a pound of coffee cost five cents and I couldn’t afford it. Now, it costs ten, ten pesos and I can afford it.” So, to some, to a lot of people, it gave them something. And those few that had so much, they lost, but I think some of them gained a lot here also. You know. Raisa Fernandez
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So –you know, my pa - my parents didn’t have anything over there. They only had their, you know, what they felt was right, and here –
[TAPE BREAKS OFF MOMENTARILY]
AR: So you were talking about their experiences.
RF: Yeah, and, you know, we do talk, my father and I about things, ‘cause [because], I’ve been, since I was young, I was introduced to a lot of politics and things like that, and then, you know, I , my issues are for people to have, you know, everyone to have things and enjoy things here, so I’m involved a lot with that and – but, as I say, again, if you want to know things like that, you would have to talk to him. He would have a lot more to say that I ---
AR: I would love to talk to him. He sounds like a fascinating person.
RF: No, he is - he is. He is. And though now he’s – my mother’s not well and he just turned 75, so, you know. He’s doing pretty good [well]. But again, you would have to talk to him. And I could ask him about it.
AR: That would be great. Well, um, I guess now, let’s move to Miami and talk about, you know, we talked about your childhood and the neighborhood as you remember it, you know, in Cuba. What was it like growing up in Miami? I guess I’ll ask you first, where did you live when you came to Miami, and how would you say that differed, [how] that neighborhood was different from the one you were raised in Cuba?
RF: I lived in Miami. I came here with my father---
AR: Where in Miami?
RF: In, uh, what is now I-95. Ninth Street and Third Avenue. Right there on I-95. My mother was living there in an old apartment full of roaches and things like that. My father was kind of ill ‘cause [because] in the jail - in La Cabana - he had like um, some Raisa Fernandez
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things that he developed, some - infection. It was an infection and he redeveloped it here a little bit. But they cured it and he was well. But he wanted to leave that apartment, ‘cause [because] it was pretty bad and so we moved to 6th Street and 14th Avenue, always in Little Havana. What is now Little Havana, back then it wasn’t called Little Havana. Of course not, ‘cause [because] we had a lot of Anglo friends and you know, when I went to school in Shenandoah that was full of Anglos. I have my yearbook from 1968 and uh, so we were there - three kids - seven, eight, and nine, and my father and my mother. And his mother was in New York, in Hoboken. His brother was in Hoboken. And you know, we didn’t have that, that relationship. You know, we loved our grandmother, but I just remember her sending some stuff from Hoboken and, then we lived there. It was a very tight room and I remember, my mother used to go to the factory to work with my father and we had the chicken pox. And we were alone, and my mother used to call on the public phone, like in the sidewalk, and we used to run and say “OK, we’re OK and we have no fever.” Whatever, basically being by ourselves. So, uh, then we moved to what is now more of a black area which 87th Street and 23rd Avenue. Back then it wasn’t, you know, black. I mean black people were further north or something like that, I don’t remember. And we lived there…and we lived there for a year, and basically, you know –
AR: How was it, how was life different would you say from what you remember in Cuba in terms of the neighborhood, uhm --?
RF: It was, you know, a lot of English-speaking, you know, and—
AR: How did you relate with them, with the Anglo community?
RF: I don’t remember… I remember one thing that I remember, never left my mind, to see how bad it is when things happen when you’re little – I was in West Little River, 1962. I know this because, it was, you know they say you remember when John F. Kennedy was shot, so I was in West Little River in November of 1962 - was it, did he die ---
AR: ‘63 Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Three - ’63, I’m sorry. And I remember, you know, being there and, and sometimes the teacher would say “You can’t speak Spanish. You can’t speak Spanish.” If you speak Spanish, they would take your, like, your snack away or something from you. I don’t know if it was racially motivated or, uh, I don’t remember…. I just don’t remember that part - you know, right now you see kids they go to special classes for Spanish, and you know, whatever, but back then, it was hard, it was, I remember that I couldn’t get ice cream because I think I spoke Spanish once. That’s the only thing, the only language I knew - Spanish. So that’s what I remember. And then we moved back to Little Havana - 21st and 8th Street - between 8th and 9th and we lived there. And then –
AR: Well, the ’63 incident, what was - you said you remembered—
RF: I remember that there ‘cause [because] I was there and I remember people stopping because Kennedy was shot, and I remember - and I remember something that my father said- ‘cause [because] he said that a lot of Cubans celebrated the death of Kennedy and he didn’t, ‘cause [because] he thought Kennedy was, you know, good and, you know, there was some, misconception about what happened - the Bay of Pigs and things like that, and they, and Kennedy blamed himself for what happened. Things like that, you know, and so, he, I remember what he mentioned, that a lot of Cubans celebrated the death of Kennedy and, you know, it was a solemn day and, for him too, you know. For us, you know, ‘cause [because] he was the president and being shot and things like that. So I remember, you know, people stopping in the hall and --- you know…
AR: And those incidents you mentioned about, you know, you remember being denied things for speaking Spanish or being punished…
RF: Yeah, I remember that –
AR: How did that make you feel as a kid [?]--- Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Bad - It made me feel bad –
AR: And um –
RF: And I was like, OK, something else. I was put into - I was eight or, eight years old or nine years old and I put into second grade, and I was bigger than the other kids. I felt bad. I was bigger and so, --- You know, so that’s what I remember. And then we came to - then I started Shenandoah Elementary and it was pretty nice. I enjoyed it. You know. And I started having friends. My mother, um, in 1965, my mother said to my father : “Let’s do something so we can have more time with the kids ‘cause [because] they’re small.” And they would work in a factory and things like that, so my mother said “OK, I want to start picking up kids.” So they started a little station wagon they had. She started. And, after that, they got a van…and they get a bus…and they started transporting kids here and my father did Riverside, the inter- integration - it was started in 196- ’72, something like that—
AR: Oh, so the bussing of kids –
RF: The bussing of kids from Overtown, to Little - to the white neighborhoods. So integration started in 1971-72 here, at Riverside and Douglas Elementary. So he worked there in that area.
AR: How was that - How did he – Well, has he ever told you any of his observations in terms of that whole era of, you know, bussing and, you know, uh --
RF: No, well, he said, you know, about integration –
AR: Any incidents?
RF: I haven’t, because I do the transportation now in Riverside and Douglas and Booker T. Washing- and I can see there’s [are] still conflicts and, you know. They try to do something that they think it was good, but, uh, they left neighborhoods unattended, Raisa Fernandez
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you know, they left the black neighborhoods unattended and, uh. Oh, he mentioned that, he mentioned that, you know, that, what I know is like, those black, you know the schools in the black area when we came 1962- ’63, whatever, those schools were very, unattended. They had no books. They had little books or raggedy books. And um, and, and, you know, he remembers an incident when he came in Cu- in Miami, where he went into a bus - 1962 - a bus, and it was still here, you could see the, in Miami Beach, you could see the water fountains that was Black and White, you know, bathroom, you know about those. And he remembers going to the bus and sitting down and then a pregnant black lady comes in and he offers her his seat, and everybody starts looking at him and she said “No, no, no, no.” She tells my father, “No, I don’t want your seat.” My father says “Yes, yes.” My father, you know, literally took her in and set her. And everyone looked at my father like “What are you doing, you know. She’s a black, you know, they have to go to the back - and they cannot sit.” So, that’s. I remember that was an impact to my father. That was something that, although it happened in Cuba, but, as again, he was different. He was, you know, he had black friends, my mother [had] a friend, or girlfriend, that was - gay. You know, she was not out of the closet as you call it now, but everyone knew that this lady was gay. And you couldn’t- you couldn’t be around, but she was a very good lady. She loved us. You know, there’s [are] pictures there with her, and everything like that. So, um. You know. I guess they were different in that way. And they were different. And my father’s views to social issues are different. You know. He feels that everyone, you know, people, you know, should be - they should live in a land, they should work the land and that the land should be theirs and, whatever, you know. Things like that. Issues. Social issues that, you know, medicine, health, housing, you know, education, you know he favors those things to be guaranteed of life for everyone. So, I guess he’s different that way…as a Cuban. – But, no, there’s [are] a lot of Cubans that feel like that - not only him. There’s a lot that do feel like that. And they’re here in Miami.
AR: Well, um - OK. Alright, so we talked about, a little bit about your experience –
RF: Excuse me. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Sure. Sure, of course.
RF: I remember I have something – Do you want to drink something?
[TAPE BREAKS OFF]
AR: Well, um, again, I asked you this about Cuba, but then in Miami, throughout your childhood, what did you do for fun, specifically, then – Well, I’ll ask that generally of course.
RF: Fun?
AR: Yeah, what did you guys - did you guys?—
RF: We went to the beach - to Miami South Beach –
AR: And what was that like? What were your impressions of going to the beach here in Miami?
RF: When I was small?
AR: Yeah, throughout your childhood.
RF: It was good. I mean, we went to the beach. And, what we had for fun, I guess, my father would put us in the car and we would take a ride through Collins and Ocean Drive -- well, Collins, I don’t know if it was there then. And to 163rd and come back and that was his -- he didn’t do any going to the movies or anything. My father and my mother, he says he couldn’t do this because he left a lot of friends behind in jail, whatever, and he wasn’t going to be having fun here while his, you know, his people [were] was there - you, the people that he left in jail, whatever. And, he didn’t think of - you know - just - Raisa Fernandez
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he went to the beach ‘cause [because] we were raised on the beach and we had to go to the beach. I mean, you know –
AR: Was it basically an event - you going to the beach - that you would - that was a family activity?
RF: Yeah, a family activity. You know, go there - family activity -Maybe once we went to the Keys together - um. It was hard to get my father out of Miami - out of, you know, his things that he would do.
AR: How ‘bout [about] visiting parks as a child. I mean, did you guys do that at all?
RF: Yeah, we went on our own. We went to the park. I guess - to Shenandoah. There was [were] not many parks - there was [were] not many parks around here. You know. It was just a school park - the playground. Which now I noted they have some signs throughout some of the schools that if you cut inside of the playground you’re in violation of being arrested. I mean, what is that? You know, this is a school playground. That’s one of the only playgrounds that kids have around here and they have posted - actually there’s a law - that that is private property, even though that’s a public school - it’s private property. And I could see, not doing harm to the school or something, but, you know, the playground after school should be open to everyone. I mean - but there’s [are] signs if you go through Coral Way Elementary, right here, you see the signs. And I was thinking of maybe getting in touch with someone who might do an article on that or do an investigation or something – But that’s something else. OK, so um, no, we went to, when I was growing up, then, you know, we would go to Fair Island, Coconut Grove, it was vacant, you know - now it’s like big buildings and things. You know we would go there and jump the fence and go swimming or go to other – you know, horseback riding, or something like that.
AR: Again, mostly family activities or did you – Raisa Fernandez
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RF: No, then later on, later on by ourselves, you know, with my brother or friends and things like that.
AR: Living in Little Havana, in those years, in your childhood, and teen years, what – well, how did you relate to neighbors here in Miami? Was there a strong sense of community would you say, or—
RF: There was more.
AR: More than now you mean?
RF: Yeah, I had a - I had, you know, like, I had like an Anglo, like friends, you know. And I had a girlfriend I remember, you know. It was somewhat. You know. Not too much, but you know. I related to them, you know, growing up, maybe I was eleven, twelve - She was the first one to show me to eat clam chowder - New England clam chowder - She used to love it. So, I remember, she lived across the street with her grandmother. And she moved away – and then we were starting - you know, I can show you my yearbook in ’68 at Shenandoah; it was mostly, you know, Anglo. You know. Everything was Anglo. And you notice - year by year you started seeing everybody leaving - you know, those friends that you grew up with, you know, leaving, you know.
AR: Did you get a sense of the resentment because it was a growing Hispanic population, or was it just something that happened?
RF: Something that happened I guess. I guess - the Cu- it’s sad to say, but some of the Cubans, you know, they felt that this was theirs, or something. You know. They led [other people to believe] to believe other people that, you know “we’re here and this is ours, and you know, we’re not going to,” I guess - I don’t know. You know, looking [back at things] things back and hearing things that [have] has happened now, where you see some Cubans saying “Well, we made Miami, we are - you know, we have all the politicians heading everything.” You know. And I think, it would be resented, you know Raisa Fernandez
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from the whites, you know, and the Anglo if they did it, if they do it now. Back then I guess, it was, I guess, like that also. And things that happen in Miami constantly, you know the bombings and things like that. You know, that’s what I remember my father saying, you know. You can’t talk, you know. You can’t really talk [about] your ideas –
AR: In Miami?
RF: Yeah. And, you know - like - um - (PAUSE) and you know, sometimes I think - it was hard, ‘cause [because] you, you know, you spoke something, you could have been bombed.
AR: Bombed by –
RF: Bombed by – people who disagree with your ideas. And it was very hard. And it was like, you knew that no one - that the authorities - they weren’t doing anything about it. It was really ---
AR: And who was doing the bombing? You say people that ---
RF: You know, people – You know, I don’t know. They felt that they had the right to do what they wanted to do, and that’s how it was, and if you didn’t think how they think, then you could be threatened.
AR: So Cuban groups?
RF: Yeah.
AR: Cuban groups.
RF: Yeah. Cuban. And, so. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Would you consider this - somewhat of a change - a safe neighborhood to be in, to walk in?
RF: This one?
AR: Little Havana in general, or the areas where you lived.
RF: Now?
AR: Then and now.
RF: It was very safe. I remember. It was pretty safe, ‘cause [because] I remember what my father enjoyed most of all to you know. (ANSWERS PHONE)
RF: I was telling you that here and where I lived around in Little Havana, I remember that my father enjoyed sitting outside, lying in the grass and just looking at the stars - star-gazing, as you call it now. It was like midnight and he’d look and he bought this beautiful radio - that was like, what, ’69, ’68. He bought a big German radio - his friend had a company and he sold us this radio - and we would hear music and go star-gazing and all that. But later on, I remember that we were outside, late at night, and he heard like footprints or something like that. And he followed them and he thought it was someone like an intruder or something, so we stopped – we lessened the hours of the evening that we would stay outside. We used to be able to leave the door open, the keys in the car, and things like that, but later –
AR: Later when?
RF: I think it was like ’68, ’69 around that area - time. I remember he had a van stolen from 16th Avenue where we lived.
AR: Were there any other incidents - I mean any increase of – Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Yeah, it was increasing.
AR: Any other specific incidents?
RF: Well, he was broke - someone came into the house where he lived. They slept upstairs and someone did come in through the house, and also in the back, in the garage door they came in. That was like, that was a couple years ago. But other than that, nothing ever happened to me. Only once when I was little a man that asked me for an address, I remember, and when I came close to the car I remember he was kind of exposing himself. So I just ran, ran to my house, you know, scared, scared, so you know, and told my mom and things like that. But other than that, you know. Then people started putting the security bars in the windows and it was a different time.
AR: So how long have you lived here?
RF: In where?
AR: This neighborhood I guess.
RF: This is, like The Roads you mean? Since 1984. So, really, basically it’s close-by where I lived, ‘cause [because] I just lived right - a couple blocks from here. I lived from 14th Avenue to 16th Avenue from 1965 through 1976 when I got married, you know. There my parents lived for twenty-four years in that house. It was always rented. He never bought. He had a chance to buy, he said he never thought of buying ‘cause [because], first of all, he had three kids, teenagers, spending a lot of money. He worked to give us what, you know, everything that we asked for as teenagers: having a car, not like a new car, but he always got us a car, insurance, this and that. He always provided for us. But he had a chance to buy maybe one house, or something like that, and he - his mind was not into buying any property - and now he tells me, he regrets. It was an error that he made, that he didn’t buy a house, at least a house, where he could have a comfortable place to live now. Now he lives in a one-bedroom apartment, you know. Raisa Fernandez
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And – so he tells me and he tells my brother - don’t sell your house. Even if it’s big now for you, whatever, keep it. You have a nice house to live in and, you know, ‘cause [because] one of the things he says here, “You have to have a place to live. You have to have, you know, when you retire, those retiring years are very difficult, and if you’re not comfortable, if you don’t have money, it’s very hard years.” Very hard. A lot of people, Cuban, elderly, that’s all they think about - going back to Cuba, ‘cause [because] they think in Cuba they’re going to live better their last years. Maybe some of them are [right] true.
AR: How would you describe this neighborhood?
RF: It’s fairly nice, although neighbors – I couldn’t say good things about all the neighbors that are around here. You know, they, they couldn’t care less. Like I have a neighbor here - right here. She has two little kids. She’s very nice. Very nice. Um, but other than that you can’t count on your neighbors. Like you hear old people saying “In Cuba, you know, you can ask for a cup of sugar.” It was more of a – family thing. But here - you know. I guess it’s - you could ask for a favor, but maybe they wouldn’t like it or something.
AR: Have you had any experiences like that? Personal experiences like that?
RF: Yeah. We lived a couple of houses away, we bought that house in ’91 or something, and my husband had to put it for sale ‘cause [because] the neighbor next door was -well- they kept to themself (sic) [themselves] but - my husband had a boat, back then they called inspectors and you had to leave, had to take your boat out of the yard. And now I see a lot of boats in the neighborhood. You know, they have them in front of the houses, and they’re able to keep them there. But he says, my husband says, “But listen, it happened two or three times and instead of coming to ---
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2] Raisa Fernandez
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[TAPE 2, SIDE 1]
RF: OK. Instead of having a worse argument - because my husband has a temper - he’s very good and whatever, but when they do something like (ANSWERS PHONE) so we put that house for sale, and this was available because the owner had died and the house was vacant, so we got a chance and we got this house. And you know, he loved being around ‘cause [because] it’s close to the beach, it’s close to our parents - his parents live right in Little Havana, my parents live in Little Havana. We have our jobs here, ‘cause [because] we have our bus routes in Little Havana and Overtown and he wouldn’t think of moving past, I don’t know - 27th Avenue. So, my brothers lived here but they moved to Kendall and all that. I was the only one who stayed in this area because my husband made - basically he wanted to be close to his jobs, he doesn’t like driving. Now he drives to Broward, ‘cause [because] he got a job in Broward. So now he drives to Broward. But he likes it. But it’s not too much traffic, ‘cause [because] the traffic is going that way, you know, at night, he’s coming, so there’s not traffic. He hates the traffic. He hates it. But I like the neighborhood. All of them - the neighbors - you know, neighbor means - I don’t know what neighbor means. Neighbor means people, having people when you need to count on them and you know their names. If you need something, you think you can go there and count on those people.
AR: And can you?
RF: Some of them yes. But again, they’re inside, they’re busy working and going to school and raising kids and they have too many problems, you know. They’re working to live, to be able to pay all their many expenses and things like that. I guess we can’t blame them for a way of life.
AR: What would you say have been the biggest changes in this neighborhood since you’ve lived here?
RF: More kids. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: More kids.
RF: Yeah! More kids. We have more kids. We used to not have a lot of kids in this neighborhood. There’s [are] more people - younger people moving in and having kids. This is a neighborhood that has many years. I know a lady across the street she was the first police officer in the city of Miami, and now she’s in her eighties. And she used to have - she has a gun. And I thought when we used to talk, and at the beginning when I moved here in 1984, and at the other house. She used to be mad. And then, after I know [knew] her, that’s the way she spoke. She’s Anglo. But she liked us. She liked us very much, and she used to criticize, there were some neighbors that moved into the house next door and the lady bought it, she worked at Jackson, but she’s got a boyfriend who used to play the drums, and she used to say, “Raisa, don’t you hear that person so loud playing drums?” And I’d say “I don’t know, he’s on the other side of the house. I don’t.” (laughing) I remember her saying that. So she moved away and there’s another couple here now. But more kids in the neighborhood, ‘cause [because] when my daughters moved in they were small and there was hardly anyone. The lady next door was single, and the people next door I think had some kids, yeah, but they moved away. And they were a little bit bigger than my kids, so then we had ( ). The lady next year bought, she’s the mother of two year-old twins, and the lady next door has three kids, small kids, you know, and in the back there’s (there are) kids. You know, there’s [they are] kids!
AR: So do you think people are moving here to raise kids because it’s a good place to raise kids?
RF: I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
AR: Well, what makes it that? What makes it good to raise kids, would you say? Raisa Fernandez
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RF: The area I guess. You know, a lot of other people moved in because their jobs are closer and, you know. There’s [There are] a lot of police officers - you know, they live around this area also.
AR: Is there a station nearby?
RF: Well, the city of Miami police station is right there on Second Avenue. And a couple of years ago they had a law or a regulation, ordinance, that people who started working for the city of Miami have to live in the city of Miami. So I guess that’s why a lot of them - there’s a lot of police presence. You can see a lot of police vehicles around here.
AR: I asked you about this earlier - Is it safe to walk in this neighborhood now? At night, or at all hours?
RF: You always have to think about - during the night - to go out during the night. You know, we have had entry into the house. We’ve had entry into vehicles.
AR: In recent years?
RF: Yes.
AR: Often, or just once or –
RF: No, we had it once - entry into the house. We were not here then. Well, we lived in the house, but it was early in the morning and we had just left for work and school. And once before we moved in, we caught a person inside the house before it was - it was vacant - but we caught the person. ‘Cause [because] we’re - you know, we’re neighbors that come out - you don’t see a lot of neighbors out, you know, sitting down and talking and - they’re very busy lives. You don’t see them. It’s hard to see someone coming out. These kids next door - the other day I saw them. I hadn’t seen them for months, and they’re small kids. And I said “Oh, wow, they’re out.” I guess they’re building also in Raisa Fernandez
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the back and it’s very bad for them. They’re building and expanding a pool and things and she hates having to come to that mess. So she stays a lot with her mother that lives close-by. Her mother bought it. I talk a lot to her - to her mother, you know. She’s a very nice lady.
AR: What neighborhood organizations are there? And if there are any are you a member of any?
RF: Yeah, they have the Roads Association – R-D-S Association. And the past president is now a commissioner of the city of Miami, Joe Sanchez, he was a past president of the Roads Association. But I don’t know – They have a flier, I have it around here. And my phone is ringing again, I’m sorry.
AR: Oh, no, no. That’s OK. Go ahead, I’ll pause it again.
(PAUSE)
AR: Oh, yeah, I was asking - you mentioned the Roads Association - And what sort of issues do they address?
RF: Oh, they have different issues - they have an issue right now going on with the air traffic and also the museum - a museum is going to be built at the Vizcaya Station, the Metro Station that is there. They plan to move it - move the station or something, because they want to build like a museum or something there.
AR: The museum of what? Do you know?
RF: Youth museum or something, I’m not sure. I have a brochure from the Roads Association – I have it somewhere. I was looking at it the other day. But they have also, if you have a complaint - if you see something wrong going on in the neighborhood, to call them and things like that. They address different issues. I think they were planning to build a low-income housing close-by or something there, on 12th Avenue at the Raisa Fernandez
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intersection and I think they didn’t want that, so they came together and stopped the building of that. They’re very active - they’re very strong. I think they’re very influential. I think they have the Brickell-Roads Association or something like that.
AR: Would you say it’s a positive influence?
RF: Um, I don’t know. I think so. In a way - if the issues are good and - I don’t know.
AR: Well, you mentioned, um, that you had break-ins here and stuff. Were there other types of crime or problems of that sort? Are there youth gangs that operate in the area?
RF: Not really. No, not really. You never know what happens - you know, what kids do. Maybe they’re in their house and they’re doing things and they’re not actually, quote and unquote, youth gang, but they might be up to something, you know - Who knows? You know, whatever happened over there in Colorado those are, you know, a pretty good neighborhood area, and look what happened -two kids got - just did things - you don’t know. And they say, there’s no crime - Well, you don’t know what your neighbor’s doing. And that could be a crime - they could be doing something…you don’t know. A couple a years ago there was a bust a couple of blocks away and it was drugs I think - you don’t know. OK, you don’t see gangs, or you don’t see other things, but - you don’t know if someone is doing illegal things.
AR: You bring up - there was possibly a drug bust--
RF: - Bust a couple of years ago.
AR: Would you say drugs are a big problem in this neighborhood or not a problem in relation to or in comparison to –
RF: No, it’s not a problem that they’re out there selling drugs or anything - like I see in Little Havana - ‘cause [because] I see it every single day. It’s not that kind of a problem. Raisa Fernandez
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But you don’t know. I hope, you know, we have neighbors who are not doing that – that are doing good [well]. You know, a block away, there was a famous - the owner of that house, I don’t want to say his name –
AR: OK, fair enough – But you say in Little Havana you see it all the time.
RF: Oh, yes, I see it so bad –
AR: And is that --
RF: Sí, sí, sí, sí, sí. A pia en noche tía ( ) yo pienso. I’m sorry I had to talk Spanish
AR: That’s OK.
RF: I think, you know, I’m driving those kids to their homes and I see the lady doing crack and I’m saying “My God, these kids what are they going - what are they seeing - every single day, what are they seeing? What are they going to be doing?” And I see the kids like you know, I was going to mention. You know, I have one kid now that a mother called me last week and said “Raisa, you know, my son is going to - outside detention - expelled, for ten days.” And I asked her what happened and she said, “He was throwing food in the cafeteria with fifteen others who are also expelled for ten days and you know this is the last of the school year and they’re doing tests.” And I said, “Well, did you talk to the principal.” She said: “You know, he didn’t even want to hear it.” And I said: “Well, go to the regional office and say that you, that if you put him inside suspension - but ten days for throwing food.” I know that that shouldn’t happen, but there’s other things that are worse than throwing food and then suspending a kid where a mother has to leave and go to work and leave the child by himself - twelve years old, thirteen years old. I don’t know how old is he - yeah, thirteen. What are you going to gain by suspending a child ten days out of a school system? Are you awarding or are you punishing? What are you doing? If you don’t have an alternative program to teach - you’re suspending a child for throwing food and you’re suspending him for ten days. Then the child who doesn’t want to go to school is who’s going to be doing things to get Raisa Fernandez
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suspended. So what is the punishment? So I told the mother: “No, you go to the regional office and say that you want to protest this; that you want to have your child inside the school.” But I don’t know. There’s a lot of that going on, especially Booker T. Washington. I don’t know other schools, if they’re having the same. It would be interesting to note, or to learn, if other schools - you know, if that’s happening, because those kids are going to be the future - those kids are going to be in trouble. And instead of getting resources to do prevention and intervention like we argue for, it’s not happening. You know, you have kids ten years-old, eleven years-old doing, being truancy (sic.), doing things - I know them. I know them ‘cause [because] they’ve been in my bus and I had to tell the mother, “Listen, I’m sorry I tried.” You know, I refer them to organizations that are in Little Havana. What are they doing? What are they doing? They get millions of dollars in grants in Little Havana, and what are they doing? I don’t know. Because kids are supposed to be - when they finish the school year - parents are worried - where am I going to put my kids? Where are they going to go? Are they [were] going to be in the house doing what - seeing (sic) T.V. doing nothing? ‘Cause [because] there’s nothing - there’s no programs. And what little programs there are there’s a lot of fee - you have to pay, and not all the kids can fit into that program.
AR: What would you like to see in terms of addressing those needs?
RF: What do you mean?
AR: You know, you say there aren’t programs, there aren’t things - and when there are programs they’re too expensive, what –
RF: I think I would want to see the people who are representing us, or who are - in charge of the programs, being more active, bringing more programs into the area for parents that cannot afford to send their kids to Miami Museum of Science and pay $200 for a program for a week. You know, we can’t afford that. Or bringing more programs. Because you’re going to end up - if you think you’re saving money right now because you’re not bringing those programs in, you’re going to be spending more money in the Raisa Fernandez
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end because those kids are going to be in trouble, they’re going to go into juvenile, they’re going to go into hearings and it’s going to cost the state and the city more money than having programs. I know that ‘cause [because] I study that - I was involved in the - the foundation that brought a grant to Little Havana. It was awarded back a couple of years ago - The Anna Casey Foundation awarded money to Little Havana. But what happened? The bureaucracy - the money doesn’t come directly to the people. It doesn’t come here. It goes to higher ups. And then they’ll decide what to do with that money - First I got to get my salary which is $90,000 a year, my other expenses, then we’ll see what happens with the rest of the money. You know. And so that’s what happens. And that’s why you have kids and then you have “Oh, because they’re making problems.” OK, keep the pool all-year-round, so the kids can enjoy it and instruct them to do swimming not in summer, because in summer they’re [they] already wanting to go to beach. Do it before summer, and do classes and do things. And there’s [are] programs out there - like the YMCA, things like that, that would want to bring programs in, but they don’t have the funds. And the city – and, oh, there’s conflicts: Metro-Dade with the City of Miami and the YMCA and the Boys Club - and they have conflict –
AR: Political conflicts?
RF: Not political, but, uh, I was going to say another word and you mentioned political. - no, it’s more of a “Who’s the best.” They don’t work together. They don’t bring their resources together, to see, you know, to bring more programs into the area. Because they want to compete, it’s a competition: Who does a better program, who gets more money. You know what I’m saying. And they end up hurting the people that they’re supposed to serve. The kids, the families, and the elderly, and things like that. So, sometimes, that’s why you see people that they don’t want to get involved. They don’t want to get involved. I am so tired sometimes, and I think, “Why should I get involved?” But then I see that I have kids and I have kids that I’m responsible to, the kids that I transport. I’m not just a bus driver to them. We’re a friend, you know, someone that they’ll talk to. And they’ll say things that amaze you. – Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Things like what?
RF: Oh, I have things where kids tell me, “My mother’s seeing another man.” And things that they will talk about, little kids will talk to you about. And, you know. I have one girl right now, who - her father doesn’t visit her, she lives with her mother, her mother’s trying to send her to tennis classes and she’s poor - she works in a Cuban family in Hialeah - and when I met her first, she said, “Do you know somewhere that my mother can work?” And I said “Well, your mother’s working.” And she said: “Yeah, but those people over there are bad to my mother. They talk bad to her, you know, and yell.” I said: “Well, we’ll see what we can do.” Things like that that kids talk to you about and you’re supposed to listen and not say anything - and try and see if things work out. But you know that a lot of those kids -they’re not going to work out. And they’re going to have problems. And I have a kid right now that, he doesn’t have a bus that will take him because he’s been so awful in the past. And he’s young. He’s - now he’s twelve - he spoke to me the other day ‘cause [because] we were going to do a field trip to Disney World and he said: “Right now my mother might let me go.” And I said: “Well, we’re not going to go ‘cause [because] I have my mother in the hospital and we don’t have that many kids” - ‘cause [because] they’re poor families, you know. And even I have a bus that’s not working and my husband’s been after me that we can do a library with this bus - we just paint it up - there was an article about a teacher who brought buses - traveling libraries - classrooms, somewhere up north - so my husband wanted to do this - paint the bus, take the seats. Put books, put things and just travel around Little Havana and maybe have - ‘cause [because] he thinks that there could be a grant that we could have teacher in the bus and have tutoring -’cause [because] there’s not that many things that kids have after they finish school. There’s not [aren’t] a lot of programs. You know. And a lot of the parents - they don’t know English, and they don’t know how to help the kids with the homework. And so, everyday I’m trying to - I tell him “OK, there’s a Dial-A-Teacher, the library has a program - Shenandoah has a program on Saturdays.” You know, I bring the brochures and give it to the school so the principal can give it out - things like that. That I can help a little bit with that. But it’s too many. There’s a lot of need and I see that the system is sometimes not working. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Do you see any hope? Any direction that could be - that maybe should be stressed more or is it – Do you see a way out basically?
RF: I don’t know. It’s (PAUSE) I don’t know. I see that the problem is so, so bad especially in this area. I know that there’s [are] a lot of areas in the whole country that is worse than this, I think, but it could be - there might be a solution, but really you have to have - there has to be more participation with people that are in charge of getting programs into the communities. They have to - something’s happening there that - waste of funds, you know, corruption, it’s a lot of corruption. People being arrested for mismanaging money and you know, giving contracts where they shouldn’t be given. Things like that, where the money is not going where it is appropriated to go. And we’re so far away from where some of the monies are coming from. (PAUSE) I don’t know. There’s [are] a lot of problems - socially. Socially there’s [are] a lot of problems. I don’t know what it is. Parents blame themselves sometimes or blame - mostly themselves for not raising a kid that’s correct or whatever, but you see that sometimes it’s not the parents’ fault. There’s [are] many things in society.
AR: Have your kids strayed away from most of that - most of the problems?
RF: Yeah, a lot of them - yeah, but they’re young, they’re going to school and things like that, but you always worry. I have a thirteen year-old and I worry about him. My father says: “You have to worry, these years are very critical.” You know, drugs, gangs, you know because if they don’t find it in the home, they try to get it with other things out there. You have to be with them constantly, constantly. So with my son, he’s thirteen years old and I’m trying to take him to places he wants to go. You know, not spending money, but going fishing or going places that I think that it would be better for him than just being inside the house or looking (sic.) at T.V. or whatever.
AR: So like what? What does he do for recreation? Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Oh, he loves music, since he’s writing music. (PAUSE) He likes fishing. He loves fishing. His father loves fishing.
AR: Where does he go?
RF: Oh, they go out. They went to the Keys with other friends. Or I’d take him to the pier in Grendall Park. Right there on the pier we’d go fishing and I’d sit there I’d leave everything, you know, at the house, and that’s what we’d have to do. We’re worried about, you know, oh, the house should be clean or whatever, but then you leave everything for something that’s more important, like taking your kids to a park or taking your kids fishing or taking your kids wherever. So, my husband, he says he needs to do this, ‘cause [because] he’s working now in Broward and sometimes he finishes late he’s not able to be here more than when he used to work with the buses with me - and he says: “We have to be on top of him. You have to.” So I try to look at what programs there are for the summer, but they’re very expensive. Baseball - the Kiwanis, the Little Havana Kiwanis, they have a baseball camp in Shenandoah, but it’s limited and, although he participated in that program for like three or four years, but then he didn’t want to do baseball anymore. Maybe I should have forced him more to do it – so – But other things - I know that’s one of the worries of parents. You know, what they are going to do while summer - the break before summer school starts. ‘Cause [because] my kids have to go to summer school. You know, my son has to go to summer school. But before then - Well, I’m better off, ‘cause [because] I work - while he’s off, I’m off, you understand? So I have more. But I’m home. But I see them. OK, I tell them “Son, what do you want to do?” He says “Mom, don’t worry. I have things I do. I’ll go fishing. I’ll do, I’ll listen to my music and write my music.” I say “Oh, OK, OK.” So I’m less worried ‘cause [because] I’m here, but I think about those parents that have to go out and work the whole day. What [are] do those kids doing? Do they know where their kids are? So it would be so nice - where automatically there’s a program with the school system or something, that you know that, OK, school’s out on the 16th, OK on the 17th or on the 20th or whatever, a couple of days after – boom (snaps fingers) - there’s a program out there that’s affordable, good, affordable program that my kids can go to. There’s not. Parents Raisa Fernandez
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- that’s the main worry about a lot of parents, ‘cause [because] I know it. I know. I talk to parents and I hear those things. There’s no program - if there’s a program - Oh- wait a minute, it’s $200 - $500. The Boys’ Club is $500 to get in. Plus the field trips. You know what I’m saying? So it’s sad. They say - put children first - Put this - where are those programs - the more, better-off families, oh yeah, they can find good, good programs, because they have the means. But what about the other - rest of the population that they don’t have the means to get affordable - programs for the summer? That’s one thing that we need to address. Oh, and I addressed it once in the Metro-Dade when I went to one of those meetings. They talked about affordable day-care for families that are eligible. I said, but wait a minute. Let’s talk about the kids. If the family is eligible - but what about the kids? If they’re good Head Start programs, they should be for every kid, no matter if the family is - OK, if he’s rich, he can contribute a little more to that program. So, the other day something came out about making Head Start programs for everyone. For the kids! Don’t talk about the parents! If you’re doing a good program - a Head Start program - that you know that it has all the requirements - it’s going to make that kid a better kid when he enters kindergarten, don’t worry if the father’s rich - think about the kid! OK, so the parent is affluent - OK, what can you contribute to this cost -because another kid cannot contribute that much. But every child will be the same. You understand? So that’s what I mentioned. And it was taken into consideration, because they have a guideline for the kids who went to Head Start Program, they have to meet this certain guidelines if you’re rich. I mean, you’re talking about a kid, you’re not talking about the family - OK the family is rich, but maybe they want their child to enter a Head Start program or enter a regular public program. I don’t know, that’s my idea. How I think. But, yeah, that family, if he can contribute, he will contribute to that program in a foundation - in a grant or something, but the child can still participate in that program so he can enjoy a good Head Start program that we cannot find in the private - I mean there’s good private - I know there’s fantastic private –
(END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1) Raisa Fernandez
June 1st, 1999
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[TAPE 2, SIDE 2]
AR: One thing I was curious to ask you, you talked about concerns of your sons - are your concerns any different about your daughters?
RF: Well, yeah, I have concerns for them, although they’re bigger. But I am concerned about them, how they’re growing up and perceiving life and everything around them. If they’ll be successful in what they’re doing, you know, I worry about them ‘cause [because] they’re still young, although they’re in college and one of them is working, the other one is not. I want them to – know that there’s a reason for them to be here. (ANSWERS PHONE)
AR: So, I was saying --
RF: Oh, so when I tell my daughter, my oldest one, and she’s kind of – loco, you know. And I say “You have to get involved - you have to be involved. ‘cause [because] I’m getting old now, and you have to - be responsible and see that things are done correctly and if there’s something you don’t like, you know, call your representative, call your whatever - write ‘em [them] letters. And if you don’t feel something’s being done correctly in your school, you know, talk about it, get the students to --- talk about it.
AR: Well, let’s see - um - I think I’ve already passed through that. ( ) Well, I guess, I already asked you some questions earlier on about leisure activity and what did as a young person for entertainment - but what do you do for leisure recreation now? (PAUSE) Do you have time for leisure recreation?
RF: Not much. Not much. Especially as my parents’ grow older. Um, (PAUSE) You know, I try to – I have to attend to them and help them as much as I can. But sometimes - I get away sometimes. I go to the Keys or – I went to Nassau the other day with the whole family - the five of us. We went there. It was an experience you wouldn’t believe - with three kids. And just two days in Nassau and - so I enjoyed that pretty much ‘cause [because] nowadays it’s hard for us five to get together, you know, ‘cause [because] they want to be always out on their own, the girls, so, when they say, “Nassau, OK, it’s a free Raisa Fernandez
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ride. Let’s go and take what we can out of this trip.” So it was an experience for them also, ‘cause [because] we walked. We walked. I don’t know if you’ve been there any. So we walked from Paradise Island which is more of a casino resort or whatever, and we walked over this big, huge, bridge and it was walking for, I don’t know - to the hotel that we were in to Nassau, it was like a couple of miles and we had to walk with our luggages (sic) because my husband said “No, because if we walk we’ll see the town.” And they said “Never. Never again.” But he said “This is an experience. This is an experience.” ‘cause [because] he heard the frustration coming out of them. Like “God, this is so hard with the luggage!” And they were saying “Nobody does this. Nobody does this!” and you could hear them, the expression and their things about walking so many - such long distance with our luggages [luggage] (sic) And we were going to catch a bus and ended up, my husband said “No, it’s right there, it’s not far away.” And blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks. He said “No, it’s right there.” Blocks and blocks - and the kids were like - tired and exhausted. Oh, we couldn’t do anything that evening when we got to that hotel. The next day we were so fresh and going out and seeing the people. And there was like a flea market right on the - we were right in the center of, you know, the people there. And it was so nice talking to them and seeing how nice they dressed for the - it was like saying - uhm, uh, a boulevard where all the stores, big stores and nice stores and jewelry and perfume – Nassau - and how the ladies dressed so nice and neatly and talked to you very nice and all that. The first time I’ve been there, you know. So it was an experience for us.
AR: That’s great.
RF: So you know, that’s what we do –
AR: But you don’t go to movies much or -
RF: I go sometimes to the movies. Not very often. Sometimes I will just drive to the beach and see where my kids hang-out. And some of the beach – you know, go and see - it was like a couple years ago and my husband said - at one o’clock in the morning we went to South Beach, we couldn’t believe it - you know, how it’s so different than when I Raisa Fernandez
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grew up and we wanted to see the night life, you know, and the people that were there, ‘cause [because] my kids love the South Beach area and I also worry so much when they go over there. I’d rather have them go to the Grove sometimes than the Beach because of the water, you know, and so many people. But that’s what I do. And I stay home a lot, you know, take care of them. (ANSWERS PHONE)
AR: You know, another public place that we haven’t talked much about is the libraries--
RF: Just one - Shenandoah.
AR: The Shenandoah Library - do you use it a lot or do your kids use it a lot?
RF: Yeah, at least weekly we go there - pick up a book.
AR: You go there together?
RF: With my son, yeah. It’s basically my son and I.
AR: So does he read a lot?
RF: Not - He reads, but he reads what he likes. Fishing magazines and now he’s into the music and writing and he wanted to get a composition book so he could write things and, things like that. I gave some books and magazines to the library ‘cause [because] they’re - they have like a - you can donate books and things and they’ll either use it there or some other place where they have sales and other things like that. So, I gave some books out the other day, I have some books to give and I bought a book - two books - I bought the other day - 25 cents - it was nice. You know. It’s nice - the library - that library’s pretty nice - everybody, like when you get there they say hi and they treat you like they know you. So, it’s nice.
AR: Do they have a lot of programs at this library?
RF: They have, now they’re having a live theater in all the libraries in Dade County.
AR: Live theater, Oh. Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Live theater - I have the brochure. And to Shenandoah it’s coming, all over now. In June - it started in like April - April, May, something like that. And they’re having live theater. And it’s very nice. You should take a look at that.
AR: Is it performed by --
RF: By uh, I don’t know if I have the brochure or not. Hold on (PAUSE) If you’re interested, you know, take a look at the brochure and it’s very nice and it’s free, you know, it’s free to the public. So –
AR: Is it well-attended?
RF: I haven’t gone to it - I haven’t gone, ‘cause [because] the others are in like West Miami, things like that, so in Shenandoah it’s coming this month, now, in June, so I’m planning to go. I want to take my son and get my daughters willing to go also. ‘Cause [because] it’s nice, there’s not a lot of, you know, like in this area - only if parents take their kids to the - to culture things. We have to expose more kids to that area.
AR: Yeah, that’s expensive too.
RF: It’s expensive- everything like that is expensive. There’s a person in Little Havana that he just told me, he mentioned the other day that they’re getting like a grant to do like a theater- like culture, you know, with the community. So I mentioned to him that about the library, so, I don’t know. He’s Sergio, uh, from the ( ) Clinic on 9th Avenue and Northwest 2nd Street. It’s a new health clinic that they did there - it’s for the community. ( ) A family- owned clinic. Sergio, that’s the director. I have this card there. So, there’s some theaters in Little Havana like Jose Marti, but it’s very – you know.
AR: I notice the theater that was - I think, was it just down the block - is it an opera ---
RF: Oh, the opera - Yeah, but that’s not the opera there - that’s like the headquarters or something, I think. I’ve never been inside but that’s what I think it is. Raisa Fernandez
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AR: Yeah, I don’t know. I just walked by and saw it. How about television? Do you watch a lot of television or do you stay away from it?
RF: I’d rather stay away from it. I usually have like a nice program – I like the Discovery channel, things like that. And I see the news, international and local, some of the local and international news and 60 Minutes and 20/20. Things like that I really like. I enjoy that program very [much] good.
AR: And your kids, do they --
RF: Um, they don’t watch many - a lot of TV. My daughter likes a little bit of the - sometimes - now. She sees sometimes the Cuban - not the Cuban, the soap opera - you know, the Spanish - some of the Spanish. And I say “What are you doing?” What is that for entertainment?
AR: How about the radio?
RF: I listen to some radio -
AR: What do you listen to mostly?
RF: I listen to some Spanish talk-show. Not very much. Just some of them, some that are right now – If you asked some of the traditional Cubans there might be some controversy.
AR: So the talk-shows are becoming --
RF: The radio talk-shows.
AR: Yes, the radio talk-shows. More liberal or more -
RF: Well, the ones that I hear are more liberal. Yeah. So, I don’t know if you’ve heard about him, the individual, but like the Transición…( ). He’s pretty much - now he’s started an English- speaking talk-show, radio, on WAX -790. It started today - live, from 8 to 9. And it was very interesting, what he has to say in Spanish. He has changed, I Raisa Fernandez
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think, he has changed a lot what is being said and how the news – and now it’s not really a lot of Cuban things that he talks about. It’s mostly Miami things, you know. Things that [are] is happening, things that usually you’d get in Spanish if it wasn’t really for what he says, you know, they wouldn’t put it in Spanish newspapers or radio or anything like that. So, um, he just got a contract to do English program on WAX. And today he interviewed uh, Doug Clifton, from the Miami Herald - He resigned. And he gave him an interview. Very interesting. Very interesting. And so, you know, he, he started in ’89 with his program and it’s been very -- But I enjoy that. I listen to that sometimes. And that’s it. And then the American station that I listen to for news and for quiet music or something like that, or relaxing Spanish music. I listen to that.
AR: Well, we’re almost done here - I just want to ask you a few questions about - well you answered that one - just some closing questions about the neighborhood - some questions in conclusion: Well, actually we’ve talked about this event a little bit, but if you could just talk a little bit about the changing face of Little Havana in terms of the diversity of people that are moving in from throughout and maybe even give me a sense of what that change has been like and where people are coming from and what groups are moving in and how that’s affected the neighborhood.
RF: Well, there is the, you know, the tradition - you know this is Little Havana but actually it’s more of a Latin American and the Caribbean. You know, like, we have a lot of people coming, well, for the past many years, we have Haitians in Little Havana. We have some Haitians. We have a lot of Nicaraguans, Salvadorians, Puerto Ricans, some Cubans coming now, a little bit more - in the past it used to be hardly that the immigration wasn’t very much - but lately I have a lot of Spanish - you know, Cubans that have come recently from Cuba, and in that area - Little Havana. Although some of them moved out. But there’s a lot of mixture. We have a lot of mixture. And we don’t have - I have Haitian clients ---
AR: Would you say it’s a smooth mixing? Raisa Fernandez
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RF: I think so. I think it’s pretty smooth. In a way, you know. They live together, you know. Like in the past you wouldn’t see that, you know. You have black people who are actually mixing in with the Spanish and things like that.
AR: And even though you always hear [that] about Cubans and Puerto Ricans don’t really get along and this and that - how much of that do you see and do you see a change in it?
RF: There’s not a lot of Puerto Ricans in that area. Puerto Ricans are in the Windwood area, mostly a little bit northern, not too much, but they have their own area, although some are there - Puerto Ricans, but not too many. Mostly, Nicaragua, Honduras, Salvador, you know, Haitians, some Haitians in that area - But, uh, it’s pretty good, although they do have their sense of, a lot of them feel that, you know Cubans are better because, you know, they have more power, they have more of the political, intellectual, you know whatever power to make – but I think it’s better. It’s better for the community that it’s more diverse and it’s - you have different points of view and, you know. I think your ideas are accepted more than traditionally they were. They’re accepted more by these Latin Americans you know, they’re people that you can talk [to] more – you know. And so, they express more their views [more] and accept you. I think I can - sometimes relate better to a person from Latin America than with a traditional Cuban, you know. They will understand I think, because of their - uh, where they came from, they have so little, and so, it’s so hard for them, that they understand that, you know –
AR: So I get the sense that you seem to really have inherited your dad’s um, sensibilities in a lot of ways.
RF: Oh yes—
AR: Well, your parents’ sensibilities actually, not just your dad’s--
RF: Oh, yes, yes. And I think I grew up in an era here that I was able to tolerate more different views and ideas and, you know, I accepted people because of –
AR: Because of developments here - you mean in Miami. Raisa Fernandez
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RF: Not in, no -- Because of my parents I mostly. Because they taught me - you know things then. And actually I just enjoy working with people and, as I told you, and when I wrote that I worked many years with legal services serving the poor. And, you know, you have to enjoy those things to be able to work…and those years, it was hard. We dealt with many things in legal services with issues of the poor, and health, and everything - nursing homes, from everything. Sometimes I got angry at an attorney for not being able to see a client or for some reason, and they’d say “Now Raisa, now wait a minute, you know, we cannot see everyone, because their issue or the case is not something we can help them with.” So, I had conflicts with, you know, things like that, with them. And I know them, a lot of them out there that are in private practice now and with the state and public defenders - but um, I enjoy that area - that period of time that I was able to help a lot of people and maybe make changes in their lives as I worked for them - you know, I worked for the improvement of their lives. And where there’s something that I thought was not correct, I would say “Why, why are we doing this? Why are they not awarding benefits to this person, or why is this person not being denied for this reason?” And when I go into the offices here, and I see the workers and how they deal with these people, I said “Why, why? Those people are [in] need. They’re not here because they want to be here. They’re just in need, you know. And they should get what they need.” So, I guess, that’s how I am. And basically, I feel pretty good. I really like my time. I get tired and say I don’t want to do anything else.
AR: Well, I guess the last question or two here are what would you consider to be the best things - the strengths of the neighborhood, of your neighborhood, of today, and what things would you like to see changed?
RF: That’s an easy one right? What is the strength? (PAUSE) Well, the - I don’t know - the diversity. The strength – Got me there. I don’t know. The strength would be like being able to adapt, or try to adapt to, a different – place, to a foreign place. You know it affects us as, you know, when we’re small, we don’t think that it’s going to affect us. But it does. But we were able to adapt to a society that was different from our society where we came from. And the people, from Latin America, that are able to come here and adapt and try to look for work and work and even though it’s hostile sometimes, and Raisa Fernandez
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the environment and the kids having to learn a different language, you know. I think that would be the strength. And what would I want to change? (PAUSE) What would I want to change? Oh, the people - to be able to, you know, to get along better, to work together better and being able to bring things into the community that will improve everyone’s life and the kids and the families and – I don’t know. (PAUSE) To try to work together and bring, uh, improve the lives of the people in the area and all over. I guess.
AR: That’s good. Thank you very much. I’ve greatly enjoyed this.
RF: You’re welcome. (END OF TAPE TWO, SIDE TWO) (END OF INTERVIEW)